Silent Hunter

Whose military forces are generally perceived to be the best and worst shots in small-arms fire?

glyn

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Semper in excretum. Solum profunda variat.

omon

this question makes as much sence, as would, who has cleanest uniform.

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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin

S-2

Uh, Glyn, I think it's the only phrase that he knew. As such, John remained mute all year until Wimbleton.

Of course, before God, Queen, and country, he'd show off his mastery of our shared language. While phrases were limited to one, J.E. had a large vocabulary of !#@$%@# and his favorite, (of course) *&^#$@!

One of America's finer examples of public decorum while abroad. As talented a tennis player as he was, he nonetheless missed his true calling serving our nation from foggy bottom.

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"This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski

Silent Hunter

I'm deadly serious. I'm interested.

Debbie

He made me want to watch tennis. A great feat mind you.

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And I close my eyes, and I kiss that frog. Each time finding the more boys I meet, the more I love my dog ------ More Boys I Meet - Carrie Underwood

Feanor

Cats. That's right, the cat army.

RustyBattleship

I consider this a serious question and a serious matter.

The Army and the Marines stress more on individual marksmanship than the Navy or the Air Force. When my brother joined the AF he blew their minds away qualifying as expert his first time up on the range. He credits me for teaching him how to shoot in the first place.

Rifle and pistol training is supposed to be the same in all services, but the Navy and Air Force are a bit more cavalier about it because they don't expect to be in the front lines like the Army or Marines. Therefore they are just satisfied that you shoot well enough while on guard duty.

However, the Air Force does have more intense pistol training programs for air crews (that might have to parachute into enemy territory) and Military Police.

In the Navy, security forces that have to respond to "INTRUDER ALERT" aboard ships are selected from their marksmanship records. But lately they have only been worried about small boats and are pretty well trained with the .50 caliber M2 Machinegun and the 25 mm Chain Gun.

I base this on the armory capacity of the Battleships in the 1980's. For a crew of 1500 men they may have had up to 100 rifles on board. Probably only 50 and about a dozen handguns. The 44 man Marine Detachment however had all assigned personal weapons and were the main "INTRUDER ALERT" respondents (though they weren't supposed to be according to some desk clerk back in NAVSEA).

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Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

Silent Hunter

Thanks for that. What about other forces?

kato

Germany, at least in the late 90s, didn't put much worth on individual marksmanship. There's a standard everyone has to keep, beyond that is just a "bonus" for the squad that soldier is assigned to.

Consequently, there isn't (or at least wasn't back then) much training in that regard either. As long as you passed the standards every year or so, that meant you had enough training. Training is meant to bring everyone up to the regulatory standard, not beyond; keeping your ability up to that (same) standard is required to serve in pretty much any function in the Bundeswehr.

There are a few marksmanship awards in Germany (the Schützenschnur stuff), but you pretty much don't get these for an individual excellent result with a particular weapon, but for consistent results at a-standard-better-than-regular-standard across the board with all small arms in your platoon's STAN outfit.

Regular standards in the Bundeswehr (Heer/Army) emphasize rifle and - to some extent - (L)MG shooting capability btw. There are very few pistol exercises (focussing on "being able to hit your target(s) when you absolutely have to use a pistol"), and SMGs are only trained in those units where it's part of the STAN outfit anyway.

toemag

All of our Service personnel are excellent shot's , our enemy's marksmanship is a joke , well we hope so anyway .

Tony

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Yet another ex-tankie of 1 RTR origin.

Ucar

In the Turkish Army, the standard training for conscripts have a shooting curriculum which is selectively applied. Most conscripts will shoot between 3-40 rounds in their 15 months of service. In units that are stationed in SE Turkey, and in sensitive zones, this is more vigorously enforced, and conscripts have a better shooting training.

Turkish Army does not hold specialist shooting courses for its conscripts who constitute a majority of its armed personnel. Our average conscript rifleman's marksmanship is between abysmal to poor.

On the other hand, professional and semi-professional soldiers especially among NCO's, receive relatively good training and it is possible to rate their marksmenship as average to good.

In selective units, especially those that conduct continious security missions, and have high readiness, shooting skills courses are organized for conscripts as well.

Albany Rifles

As an old US Army infantryman I would nod my hat to the USMC who have always had outstanding marksmanship training. The Army's infantry got away some but started to bring it back in the late 1990s. The US Army learned its lesson the hard way (does the 507th MT CO and Jessica Lynch come to mind?) and has really increased its marksmanship for everyone. I work on FT Lee, VA, home of the Quartermaster Corps and I can tell you the firing on th eranges is not quite 24/7 but it is close. Troops are always using the simulator building and firing on the ranges. I beleive our support troops have increased their weaposn raining by several orders of magnitude. And this is a good thing since logistics soldiers are the ones fighting along the supply lines. The Army has about reached the level of dedication of the Marine Corps; I am not sure we have received their level of proficiency yet.

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“When the gods wish to punish us, they answer our prayers.” — Oscar Wilde

RustyBattleship

At least they are reaching for it. Since I lived only 2 miles from a shooting range (back in the 50's and 60's) I bought my own .45 1911, M-1 Carbine, M-1 Garand and 03-A3 Springfield and taught myself how to shoot.

Albany Rifles

I qualified expert on literally every weapon I used in the Army, from M1911A1 through Bradley Fighting Vehicle (990 first time Table VIII Baby!!!) That included M16, HG, M203, M60, M2, 81 mm mortar, 107mm mortar, DRAGON & TOW. Of course, as an officer, I did not wear qualification badges....but you bet there is one banging around in my foot locker somewhere.

And as I remind my son where did I learn to shoot so well? Boy Scout summer camp!