pioneerspec

We have physical test annually but marksmanship qualification erm....4 times in 15 years. How come my army is more interested in how fast I can run?

Tronic

You doing national service? i.e. are you a conscript?

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Nabha Sparasham Deeptam
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glyn

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Semper in excretum. Solum profunda variat.

gunnut

HG as in hand grenades? How can you qualify as a marksman on that? Do you have to toss a perfect spiral and make sure the receiver doesn't drop it?

Is it hard to use the M203?

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dave lukins

Is he part of the Barbados Cresta Run team? ..now that would make sense

omon

when tzars ruled russia the term was 25 years

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pioneerspec

Enlisted for national service in Oct 1993 (National Service, Full Time, NSF)
Served NSF for 2yrs and 4 months as a combat engineer, Field Engineer, to be exact. Full time means we eat, sleep and sh*t in camp. Booking out on weekends. Paid a pittance of around US$200 a month.
ORD Feb 1996 (Operational Ready Date) meaning I become a Operational NS Men. Which in Singapore, forms the bulk of the Army. Organized into battle-ready brigades. Hereafter, I am officially a civilian but I get to keep my personal gears with me i.e kevlar helmet, battle harness, field pack, more or less everything less the M-16.
I am expected to report to a mobilization centre within 4 hours or so (cannot remember exact hours) at all times.
I am required to report for training on a annual basis (which can last up to 40 days per year but seldom does) + briefing + physical test etc until I completed my quota of required sessions over a minimum of 10 year period, which kind-of ended in Oct 2007 for myself.
Thereby, I am transferred to 'Reserves'. Which means I am liable to be called up when something is already on the proverbal fan up to the age of 40. I am currently 35.
Therefore, I pray for peace for the next 5 years becos I can run better than I shoot.
I hope this gives you abit of insight to the National Service System in Singapore.

Expat Canuck

It did, thanks buddy!

tankie

Maybe they want to transfer you to the French army

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kato

Kinda short reserve time, in international comparison. I'll be a member of the "common reserve" here in Germany until 2044 if we'd go to war. I.e. until the age of 65. Might get lowered to 2039 / 60 still.

At least i'm getting out of the "service surveillance" in 2011 (which technically requires me to notify the army of any absences from home for longer than 8 weeks, major changes in health, any official graduation i do, including for skills/jobs...).

omon

as of 2008, in russia concripts will be serving for 1 year. and russian army finaly does away with current boots, and foot wraps, and gets normal booths(like the rest of the world) and socks.

Albany Rifles

Yes, Hand Grenade...and yup, you kind of gotta do what you are saying. You go through and assault course using training grenades. Its a combination of accuracy and distance. You have to throw into 5 meter circle, into a fighting position, through a window and a few other things.

Always helped it was shaped liek a baseball and I played catcher...kind of like throwing out the runner at 2d base!

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pioneerspec

oh, back to the main issue on Marksmanship. The information is not very accurate as reason mentioned afore.

As a combat support troop, our individual marksmanship test bascially shooting at stationary target from various position at 100 meters plus a rundown to engage at standing at around 50 meters then from hip at 15 meters, odd sized target at 100 meters, Night Shoot at various target from, i think, 60 meters.

A score of more than 50% is required to pass. There is no wash out for failure. If there is, I think everyone will fail to get out of combat troops.

Infantry guys do it at 400 meters.

Personally, I think real marksmanship in a battlezone cannot really be taught at the range but getting the fundamentals correct is more important.

Cover and concealment + final firing position is more pratical in battlezone becos a dead marksman is just dead.

kato

From German requirements, below is a list of standard shooting exercises done in the Bundeswehr.

For G3 rifle:
G3-S-1 : (only to find a feeling for your rifle, 100m sitting assisted)
G3-S-2 : 100m, assisted; 6 rds single, prone target; 4 target hits or 42 rings
(G3-S-2 required to shoot anything below)

(main concourse)
G3-S-3a : 200m, assisted; 9 rds single, prone target; 3 target hits or 40 rings
G3-S-3b : 250m, assisted; 6 rds single, pop-up targets; 3 target hits
G3-S-3c : 150m, unassisted; otherwise same as G-S-3a, except with 6 rds only

(anything below not required to pass basic, and most often not done at all)
G3-S-4 : 100m->50m, moving forward; 12 rds single, pop-up targets; 6 target hits
G3-S-5 : 80m, assisted; 2x10 rds auto, four pop-up targets; all targets hit; 2nd magazine firing under NBC conditions
G3-S-6 : 50m->15m, forward moving; 15 rds single, pop-up targets; 2 targets hit
G3-S-7 : 100m, assisted; 5 rds single, moving target; 2 targets hit
G3-S-8 : 250m->100m, moving to four positions; 16 rds single, pop-up targets; 1 hit per position
G3-S-9 : 100m, at night, with NVG; 5 rds single, pop-up targets; 3 targets hit (in repeat exercises: at 200m or with 5 secs max per shot)
G3-S-10 : 150m/100m at night, with illumination; 6 rds single, prone targets (2 at 100, 2 at 150m); 3 targets hit, 1 per distance min

(guard duty exercise below, identical with G36)
G-W-1 : 120m->100m, moving forward; guard simulation with two shooters, engage persons; 3 rds single per shooter, one pop-up target per shooter; engage target until hit or end of simulation (... our requirement was "hit")

I've never done any of the "moving" runs except G-W-1 myself. Up to G3-S-3 exercises in basic, couple of the others in AGSHP simulator. That's it.

The G36 exercises focus a bit more on quick-draw, movement, and usage of both sights, engagement spectrum is about the same iirc. AGSHP simulator is used quite a bit nowadays, supposedly electricity is cheaper than ammo.

Post-basic, in particular in combat units, people will strive to get the "Schützenschnur" requirements, which are basically a set of exercises identical to standard exercises (G3-S-3 set above) with various weapons, except with higher requirements as to hit rates.

edit:

For G36 rifle:

G36-S-1 : (identical to G3-S-1)
G36-S-2 : 200-250m, assisted (X3.5 sight); 5 rds at 200m, 5rds at 250m, single; prone targets; 3 hits per distance
G36-S-3 : 25m, unassisted quick-draw; 10 rds, single, one shot every 10-15 secs; ring target; 80 rings
(G36-S-3 required for below)
G36-S-4 : (identical to G3-S-10)
G36-S-5 : 150m->70m, moving, 3 phases (both sights); 3x5 rds, single; pop-up targets; 3 hits per phase
(G36-S-5 required for G36-S-9 below)
G36-S-6 : 250/200m, assisted, 2 phases (X3.5 sight); 2x4 rds, single; pop-up targets at 200 and 250m; 2 hits per phase, second phase in under 10 secs
G36-S-7 : 20-70m, 3 phases quick-draw; 3x5 rds, single; pop-up targets; 3 hits per phase
G36-S-8 : (identical to G3-S-9)
(main concourse)
G36-S-9 : (identical to G3-S-8, with position distances shortened by 20-25%)

Not sure which exercises are required to pass basic there. For Schützenschnur, G36-S-9 is shot - requirement there 2 hits per phase, and Bronze 9 total, Silver 11 total, Gold 13 total.

JCT

The USMC M16A2/A4 and M4 carbine marksmanship program consists of two tables. Table 1 course of fire:

200m: Slow fire: 5 rnds standing, 5 rnds kneeling, 5 rnds standing in 20 minutes; Rapid fire: 10 rnds in 1 magazine going from a standing position to a kneeling position in 60 seconds (This is a recent change)

300m: Slow fire: 5 rnds kneeling; 10 rnds in 1 magazine going from a standing to a prone position in 60 seconds (This is a recent change)

500m: Slow fire: 10 rnds prone in 10 minutes

During table two, Marines will shoot from the 25- and 50-yard lines with a flack jacket and Kevlar. Marines must hit 75 percent of their rounds at 25 yards and 50 percent at 50 yards to qualify. For the full course of fire you can check out the MarAdmin here. Table 2 has radically changed in the last few years. Originally, Table 2 or "Field Firing" was considered a joke as it was not scored and the exercises were not taken seriously (and shooting in a gas mask sucked...) The new course emphasizes rapid acquisition of the target with multiple rounds placed on target in a quick manner. Much more relevant.

Active duty Marines must shoot both tables annually. Reserve Marines shoot Table 1 on even years and Table 2 on odd years.