Cactus

What is the typical duration of contract for officers who join from civilian universities through short-term programs that offer a path to commissioning (like the summer-long US Marines' PLC)?

Shek

ROTC Scholarship commissionees incur a 4 year commitment, and non-scholarship ROTC and OCS graduates incur a 3 year commitment.

For Army officers, the big stay/get out decisions come at the end of the initial commitment and at around the 8 year mark, at which point you've finished company/battery/troop command, know whether or not you will be competitive for battalion/squadron command or not, and know what your alternatives to your basic branch are.

If the Army had been smart, they would have implemented an expanded civilian graduate school program sooner than last year, and they would have made officers eligible to attend before company command instead of only after. This would provide an opportunity for those that like the Army, don't mind deploying, but need a break in the short-term to have an option that would allow them to stay-in. The Army would retain another officer and have an officer with graduate schooling and additional maturity prior to company command. Unfortunately, I think that some myopia has prevented us from making smarter choices. For example, sending a junior captain to grad school would be seen and robbing the operational force of a body to fill a slot.

However, if the program meant that a quality officer would stay in (2 years of grad school equals a 6 year commitment following grad school) instead of get out, it would be a decision that had no impact in the short-term (because the officer would have gotten out anyway) while gaining six more officer-years in the long-term. A draw-win situation, which is better than a lose-lose situation.

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"So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

JAD_333

Military and government service seems to wane and rise with the temper of the people. Do you recall the period between 1972 and 1980 when service members were not held in high esteem? That was a backlash from Vietnam. Then Reagan came along and rebuilt and reinvigorated the military, and you could feel a sense of pride returning to the ranks. When I started working at the Pentgon in 1981, most military officers came to work wearing civvies. A few years later they were coming in uniform; they wanted people to know they were military. Perhaps we are in a downturn because of Iraq, or because the civilian employment prospects are especially good at the moment. Sad to say, but I don't think Bush is very highly regarded by service members at all levels, and that could be a factor. A strong, respected CIC makes a difference. Just thinking...

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To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education. (Plato)

S-2

"...look at their world frame of view when they applied...in 1997."

This is a fair point. That said, the class of 2006 will be the first class which enrolled fully cognizant of the GWOT. Their ROTC equivalents will be eligible to leave the service as early as June, 2009. It just may be that we'll weather the storm if we've seen a significant draw-down by June 2011.

Still, it would seem unusual to me that the expectations of young people choosing to attend U.S.M.A. would be so dramatically different in the intervening few years. Perhaps, but while the world may be different, the self-selection to a pathway as narrowly defined as West Point would suggest that these are very similar groups of young people sharing many common traits.

"Now, some of those in the post-9/11 matriculation classes will find themselves with a different outlook than when they entered due to marriage, kids, etc., but there will not be a mismatch in expectations."

I suspect that this may be critically important, actually. Offhand, I'd guess that 80% of the E-5 through E-7s that I knew were married. Fully half of the O-1 through O-3s. A nation perpetually at war can expect it's greatest erosion right there. The impact will be catastrophic at the small unit level.

My dad had 23 years by 1967 as an E-8. E-9 if he'd take a 'Nam tour plus two stateside. "No way", said my Mom-and that was that. He had an option when many didn't. Now everybody does.

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"This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski

Shek

S-2,
The difference is huge. For many, the draw of a degree with West Point written on it without the expectation of deploying into a combat zone in the subsequent five years vs. the expectation that you WILL be deployed for 2-3 years of your 5 year commitment is a world of difference.

The quality of entering classes has remained high the past few years, but the depth of qualified candidates has shrunk, indicating that the war has weeded out a lot of potential applicants.

Skull6

My concern with "national service" is that it will again not be applied evenly across the spectrum. I would back it in a heartbeat if this were guaranteed.

I'm imagining that our politicians would need to take a much harder look at backing "needed" military operations, if they know that their own offspring have just as much a chance of being called up as anyone else's.

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If you know the enemy and yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles. - Sun Tzu

TheGreenSmoke

Sir, how do the slots work? Does it mean that if certain slots are filled up by USMA cadets then there will be none left for the ROTC cadets?

Shek

I am not sure how the slots are allocated across the three commissioning sources (ROTC, USMA, OCS), but I do know that USMA branching would not prevent other commissioning sources from receiving slots for a particular branch. I'm pretty sure that distinguished grads from all three sources get their top choices, and then it boils down to timing and needs of the Army, with the BRADSO program shifting things around a bit.

Stan187

From what I heard from an ROTC friend, all USMA first get to pics in order of their rankings (grades), then all ROTC, then all OCS.

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