WW2-era US tank identification - Page 2

Levsha · 09-19-2007, 08:24 AM

Very interesting photo.

By the way, it seems that 2 of the soldiers at the rear of the tank are speaking into radios/telephones. Now I would have thought that one radio is enough for such a small section of men. But I do remember reading somewhere, that in the present 'war' in Iraq that there was a problem with infantry troops communicating with M-1 Abrams crews. Consequently, a special exterior telephone was fitted to the tanks to allow for easier communications "from the outside to the inside" of the tank.

Did M-4 Shermans ever have such a telephone fitted during WW2?

Shipwreck · 09-19-2007, 11:04 AM

From the 24th Infantry Regiment website :

Quote:

During World War II, the 24th fought in the South Pacific as a separate regiment. Deploying in later moved to the Solomon Islands, including Guadalcanal, and secured airfields for the protection of incoming personnel and supplies. In spring of 1944, the 1st Battalion, 24th Infantry (Deuce-Four) fought on Bougainville Island while attached to the 37th Infantry Division. Reunited in December 1944, the 24th occupied Saipan and Tinian Islands until July 1945. At the end of the War in the Pacific, the 24th accepted the surrender of the Japanese forces on Aka Shima Island, the first formal surrender of a Japanese Imperial Army Garrison.

dalem · 09-19-2007, 13:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Levsha

Did M-4 Shermans ever have such a telephone fitted during WW2?

Yep. Almost as soon as they hit France and needed to learn/re-learn close infantry-armor tactics, many units stuck field phones on the back of the Shermans to allow for communication between the TC and accompanying infantry.

As far as I know, we've had to re-learn that lesson and repeat it in every single long-term combat since, although I think models of the M48 patton came with a slot on the back hull exactly FOR that.

-dale

Shamus · 09-19-2007, 14:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shipwreck

From the 24th Infantry Regiment website :

Shipwreck,the caption on the picture states that they are from the 24th Infantry Division not regiment.I think maybe the person writing the caption just got a little confused.Who knows?

Albany Rifles · 09-19-2007, 15:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Levsha

Very interesting photo.

By the way, it seems that 2 of the soldiers at the rear of the tank are speaking into radios/telephones. Now I would have thought that one radio is enough for such a small section of men. But I do remember reading somewhere, that in the present 'war' in Iraq that there was a problem with infantry troops communicating with M-1 Abrams crews. Consequently, a special exterior telephone was fitted to the tanks to allow for easier communications "from the outside to the inside" of the tank.

Did M-4 Shermans ever have such a telephone fitted during WW2?

Us Tanks from WW II all of the way up through the M60A3 had a telephone on the back of the tank so dismounted infantry could talk to the tank commander. In later years they grew notoriously unreliable. When the US Army adopted the M1 we dropped the phone box. Ever stand behind an M1? The heat from the turbine engine exhaust was unbearable!!! The newest version of M1A2 is a field modification for use in Iraq. The phone is not going to be adopted as a permanent item.

As for the 93rd ID, here is it official history synopsis from the US Army's Center For military History Combat Chronicle- 93d Infantry Division

Here it is for the 24th ID

Combat Chronicle- 24th Infantry Division

There were no black troops in the 24 ID in WW II...and it did not fight in the Solomons.

Shamus · 09-19-2007, 15:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shamus

Shipwreck,the caption on the picture states that they are from the 24th Infantry Division not regiment.I think maybe the person writing the caption just got a little confused.Who knows?

D'oh!Nope,the confusion was all mine as usual.Shipwreck is correct,I had 24 Infantry Division on the brain when they were talking about the 24th Infantry Regiment.My bad

.Thanks for the correction,Shipwreck.

Shipwreck · 09-19-2007, 16:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shamus

Shipwreck,the caption on the picture states that they are from the 24th Infantry Division not regiment.I think maybe the person writing the caption just got a little confused.Who knows?

Shamus,

As Temujin pointed out earlier (post #7 here), the caption for the picture on the National Archives website says :

Quote:

"Negro troops of the 24th Infantry, attached to the Americal Division, wait to advance behind a tank assault on the Japanese, along Empress Augusta Bay on Bougainville." 1944.

Which implicitely suggests that, since the 24th Infantry is attached to the Americal Division, it cannot be the 24th Infantry Division.

Shamus · 09-19-2007, 16:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shipwreck

Shamus,

As Temujin pointed out earlier (post #7 here), the caption for the picture on the National Archives website says :

Which implicitely suggests that, since the 24th Infantry is attached to the Americal Division, it cannot be the 24th Infantry Division.

Yes,I see that Shipwreck,my confusion stemmed from post#1 which identifies the unit as the 24th Infantry Division.Again,my confusion,my mistake.As I said in my post above,you were right,I was wrong...mea culpa....thank you again for the correction.The history of the regiment is very interesting as is the history of the 93 Inf.Division whose 25th Inf. Regiment also fought at Bougainville.

Shipwreck · 09-19-2007, 16:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shamus

Yes,I see that Shipwreck,my confusion stemmed from post#1 which identifies the unit as the 24th Infantry Division.Again,my confusion,my mistake.As I said in my post above,you were right,I was wrong...mea culpa....thank you again for the correction.

No problemo.

temujin77 · 09-19-2007, 18:14 PM

Hm, so, in an attempt to sum it up, two questions:

1. What should the caption say in regards to both tank type as well as the unit?
2. How would you (all of you who helped!) like me to refer to you when I give credit to you guys on that page when we finalize the proper caption?

Shamus · 09-19-2007, 18:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by temujin77

Hm, so, in an attempt to sum it up, two questions:

1. What should the caption say in regards to both tank type as well as the unit?
2. How would you (all of you who helped!) like me to refer to you when I give credit to you guys on that page when we finalize the proper caption?

Tank type,M4A3?I would go with the original caption for the picture.Just refer to me as the dumb**** who needs new bi-focals

.

Shipwreck · 09-19-2007, 18:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by temujin77

1. What should the caption say in regards to both tank type as well as the unit?

Variant = M4 (mid-production)

Shipwreck · 09-19-2007, 19:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by temujin77

1. What should the caption say in regards to both tank type as well as the unit?

Unit = 1st Battalion, 24th Infantry Regiment (probably)

Quote:

On 19 April (1944) an officer and sixteen men patrolling across the Mavavia were trapped by a company of Japanese. The patrol leader ordered his men to fight their way back across the river; twelve were able to do so, but the patrol leader and three men were pinned down by machine gun fire.

A rifle platoon, supported by a platoon of medium tanks from the 754th Tank Battalion, landed from LCT's and attacked the enemy. The 24th's platoon rescued the trapped men and withdrew across the river mouth.

After nearly five days of artillery and mortar fire on the area, a company of the 24th, supported by two platoons of tanks and a platoon of flame throwers, landed from LCT's and attacked along the narrow beach.

Facing moderate to heavy resistance, the company cleared more than 1,000 yards of beach before nightfall while the remainder of the battalion occupied the cleared area and organized defensive positions.

The advance continued the next day until midafternoon, when swampy ground near the mouth of the Moy River halted further attempts to gain ground.

These constituted the first Negro infantry attacks supported by white armored troops and involving LCT's in World War II.

Link

zraver · 09-19-2007, 19:50 PM

M4A3 w/o a doubt. Angled hull vs the rounded hull of the M4A1.

Shipwreck · 09-19-2007, 20:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zraver

M4A3 w/o a doubt. Angled hull vs the rounded hull of the M4A1.

Not the M4A3 since no engine grill doors.

09-19-2007, 18:14 PM	#25 (permalink)
temujin77 Patron Join Date: 12-05-06 Posts: 203 Country:	Hm, so, in an attempt to sum it up, two questions: 1. What should the caption say in regards to both tank type as well as the unit? 2. How would you (all of you who helped!) like me to refer to you when I give credit to you guys on that page when we finalize the proper caption? __________________ Pete World War II Database

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09-19-2007, 08:24 AM	#16 (permalink)
Levsha Regular Join Date: 05-04-07 Posts: 69 Country:	Very interesting photo. By the way, it seems that 2 of the soldiers at the rear of the tank are speaking into radios/telephones. Now I would have thought that one radio is enough for such a small section of men. But I do remember reading somewhere, that in the present 'war' in Iraq that there was a problem with infantry troops communicating with M-1 Abrams crews. Consequently, a special exterior telephone was fitted to the tanks to allow for easier communications "from the outside to the inside" of the tank. Did M-4 Shermans ever have such a telephone fitted during WW2?

09-19-2007, 19:50 PM	#29 (permalink)
zraver Contrary by nature. *Military Professional* Join Date: 10-22-06 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,529 Country:	M4A3 w/o a doubt. Angled hull vs the rounded hull of the M4A1.

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