Patton vs Centurion 1965 Indo-Pakistan war - Page 13

zraver · 01-05-2008, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klrajiv

Dear Ray,
Certain updates on the facts of both the tanks. While the Pattons then had a 90mm gun the Centurions had 84mm. Both had been upgraded by the Western Armies of that day but India and Pakistan had older versions. Next, the Pattons had a stereoscopic range finder, and not a laser range finder. While it was considered better than the Centurions it had 3 major drawbacks. 1 - It fired a full bore APCBC round, while the Centurion had an APDS round whose performance was better. 2 - The Centurion had better armour protection than the Patton. 3 - The Indian armoured units had perfected a new shooting technique wherein 3 rounds were fired within 15 seconds with an assured single rd hit probability. The ***** had none comparable to it. Therein lies the tale.
How do I know it? I am a cavalry officer, and my unit fought in both 65 and 71 wars with the Centurions. Both times we decimated the Pak armour unit opposite us.

Welcome.

However despite your experience I must disagree with your assertion that Indian Cents had the OQF 20 pounder, at least exclusively. At least some them used in combat had the Royal ordnance L7 105mm cannon. A picture of an Indian cent armed with a 105mm gun can be seen here

Indian Centurion tank 1965- Suite101.com Images the image is from 1965 and is sourced from :: Bharat-Rakshak.com - The Consortium of Indian Military and Defence Websites ::

A Centurion mk III armed with the OQF 20 pounder can be seen here
http://www.armyvehicles.dk/images/centurionmkiii.jpg

and here

http://www.solarnavigator.net/histor...turion_mk3.jpg

Here is a picture of the OQF 17 pounder armed Firefly for barrel comparison with the OQF 20 and the R.O L7 so that all three weaposn the Cent was armed with can be compared. note the 17 pounder does not taper like the 20 pounder

Other pictures of Indian Cents from 65/71

Google Image Result for http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Images/0084.jpg

Lt. Col. Hanut Singh, MVC of 17 Poona Horse with his Centurion tank, Kooshab. The regiment is one of the most decorated in the Armoured Corps and in 1965 it had already been awarded with one PVC, only to win another in 1971 at the Battle of Basantar in which 66 Pakistani tanks were claimed to have been destroyed

Google Image Result for http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Images/0280.jpg
A well-camouflaged Indian Army Centurion tank awaits the arrival of the Pakistan Army at Assal Uttar.

Note, this picture does indeed seem to show the tapering barrel of the OQF 20 pounder.

all three images courtesy of :: Bharat-Rakshak.com - The Consortium of Indian Military and Defence Websites ::

http://www.pakdef.info/pakmilitary/a...ancent_cap.jpg

Here is a 105mm armed Cent taken as a trophy by Pakistan

S-2 · 01-05-2008, 02:41 AM

Now THIS is truly worthy stuff. After their prime movers seized, these guys manhandled their weapons all night to be able to range by first light. Behold the gunners

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Pioneer · 04-02-2008, 08:08 AM

Sorry a little off topic – but I recently read that the new West German Army preferred the British Centurion design over that of the US designed M47 design.
The Centurion was also ¾ cheaper to buy, than the American design.
In the end ‘I think’ it would have been a political decision for West Germany to purchase the M47 tank.
Pity, for I think the West German Army could have done a lot and got a lot out of the Centurion tank!!!

Regards
Pioneer

Albany Rifles · 04-02-2008, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioneer

Sorry a little off topic – but I recently read that the new West German Army preferred the British Centurion design over that of the US designed M47 design.
The Centurion was also ¾ cheaper to buy, than the American design.
In the end ‘I think’ it would have been a political decision for West Germany to purchase the M47 tank.
Pity, for I think the West German Army could have done a lot and got a lot out of the Centurion tank!!!

Regards
Pioneer

Made no sense to go with a British design since the Bundeswehr was more integrated with the Seventh US Army than with the BAOR. Additionally, Great Britain was not in a position economically to provide the support and discounts the US could provide for the M47s and M48s.

Where did you read this?

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04-02-2008, 08:08 AM	#183 (permalink)
Pioneer Regular Join Date: 03-29-08 Posts: 46	Sorry a little off topic – but I recently read that the new West German Army preferred the British Centurion design over that of the US designed M47 design. The Centurion was also ¾ cheaper to buy, than the American design. In the end ‘I think’ it would have been a political decision for West Germany to purchase the M47 tank. Pity, for I think the West German Army could have done a lot and got a lot out of the Centurion tank!!! Regards Pioneer

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