Sandman

Accuracy, and ballistics. Dammage, and "tumbeling" effect that makes them so deadly, which has an advantage? (if this has not been asked before). The US round has a little more velocity. 3300 fps -vs- 2800fps.

leib10

5.45x39's 7N6 round is a "dum-dum" round with an air pocket behind the tip of the bullet, making it far deadlier to unarmored targets than it would've been if it was a standard ball round.

5.56x45's SS109 round has a steel penetrator rod inside, giving it better penetration than the 5.45x39. Accuracy is also better. Its terminal ballistics are probably inferior.

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omon

i recall a story told by a afgan weteran, he was in a firefight, the mugahadin, was laing on a rock and shooting down on soviets, this guy managed, to get above the mugahadine, and shot about 10 rounds from 20 meters, at him, as a standart precedure, he needs to search the killed and take his weapon, since the guy was laing down, bullets went thru, and bounced off the rock and back into the mugah. when he turned him around, his internals were shreaded and fell out, the guy had a hole in his torso, almost the size of his torso, guts, bones, flesh, all was mixed up like after meat griander. he was using aks 74, 5,45.

SRB

What happend when bullet of small caliber (5,54 or 5,56) hit wooden door of car door?
Will happen fragmentation of bullet?
Fragmentation is not good in street fight there is too many covers. That is why I think that bigger calibers are better in urban war especial if solider is good train.

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s_qwert63

I heard another one of my uncle, saying that a Dushman was hiding behind a clay wall, and half of his platoon were spraying him with their 74's, the guy was pinned down but continued to return fire. This was seriously delaying the whole squad which was meant to rendevouz with the rest of the platoon to be taken out by helicopter. This was all going on until their BMD mechanic (who was on foot, since they were used as light infantry) pulled out his AKM and fired off a couple of rounds, the trusty 7.62's went through the clay wall and the dushman, who was killed.

Conclusion, AKM>AK74.

Stan187

Sounds like a classic urban legend.

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s_qwert63

I don't know you should ask my uncle,

Efreitor T. Ibragimov, 137th Parachute Landing Reginment, 106th Guards Airborne Division of the VDV, Soviet Army 1987.

A 5.45mm was ineffective at penetrating much more than a wooden door, since it loses it's stability very easily.

omon

taht is true, 7,62 outpanatrates 5.45, but in the open spaces, it's good enough.
many soldgies didn't like 5,45,neither does m.t. kalashnikov himself.
btw, if it wasn't for m16 .223 round, there might not be 5,45 at all.

Stan187

Sorry I didn't see any phone number or mailing address there, how am I supposed to ask him?

jame$thegreat

Doesnt this belong in small arms? There already is a 5.56 vs 7.62 thread there too, no offense.

Personally I've only shot a 5.56 so I'm biased, but i saw nothing wrong with it, it was very managable. I'm only 15 so I havnt fired that many guns and the only other assault rifle I've ever fired was a 9mm Uzi so I dont have vast experience but I thought that the 5.56 was extremly managable even when fired 4, 5 and 6 shots at a time. To me I think that would be a very important aspect in a battle field situation.

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gunnut

5.56 ball round deforms after hitting softer targets. I have recovered some after shooting wet telephone books (similates tissue, the cheap way), and through wooden 2x4.

I was not able to recover any bullets after hitting a stainless steel plate. The rounds went clean through the first, impacted on the 2nd plate about 2" behind it, leaving a mark but no dent. In this case, I think the bullet either deformed, dejacketed, or disintegrated.

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BenRoethig

It is my understanding that the 5.56 was intended to be a dum-dum round. They decided to change to a more conventional round because the human right groups would have been all over our rear ends. When the Russians went to a small high velocity round they went with the dum-dum because things like human rights really didn't bother them.

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leib10

Precisely. Who's really going to go to the trouble to take them away from them?

leib10

And are "conventional" rounds really so much more "humane" than dum-dum rounds and the like? But that's another topic.

Triple C

I doubt it. Practically every modern rifle cartridge from full battle rifle to assualt rifle bullets can do horrific damage when they hit bone in close range. Just the way the international law works, I suppose.