ZFBoxcar

Israel can't influence events throughout the world. The UN makes sure Israel will always be an "issue", but Israel itself does not have the power to project influence (militarily or economically) around the world. Israel is not a super power.

Officer of Engineers

No, it doesn't. WWII alone puts Israel's combined wars to shame.

What allies or client states Israel dominates?

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Chimo

Ray

Fiji is a superpower. She does exactly what she wants to and no one bothers her!

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"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA

bigross86

Which is why I said that the second definition applies more then the first.

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Officer of Engineers

How does the 1st definition fit?

bigross86

The first definition is:

A powerful and influential nation, especially a nuclear power that dominates its allies or client states in an international power bloc.

Especially, meaning not required, but additional and strengthening to the basic. Israel IS a powerful and influential nation. Israel is a nuclear power, though she doesn't "dominate its allies or client states in an international power bloc."

However, even without the domination, the first, basic part of the definition still exists, therefore Israel is a superpower

Ray

Israel is really super. There is no question about that. It is a small nation and with inimical neighbours who have tried to wipe it out and failed. That itself is a great achievement.

It has does excellent work and was the pacesetter in the agricultaral field which has benefited many a developing and under developed nation. Its military industry is fantastic and very innovative. Therefore, it speaks highly of the Jewish intelligence. tenacity and talent.

Yet, on the flip side, I would be biased that iI I agree that it is a superpower. She doesn't accept that she has nukes but all knows that it has. This would have not been possible had it not been for the wink and nod of the REAL superpower. I don't think I require to say who is the REAL superpower!

Iran got a kick for its nuclear programme when Al Barade visited. Heard anything about Al Barade's visit to Israel? He better not open his mouth too much!

Ray

As the submariners say Run Silent Run Deep.

Bigross, the submariners are not wrong.

bigross86

This may be true, but even thought everyone knows that the USA is the world's only Superpower, Israel is the regions only Superpower, unless you consider the Arab League a Superpower also.

Officer of Engineers

BTW, who does Israel trade with and I mean the day-to-day, Mom and Pop making a living day-to-day trade?

One last thing, do you consider Turkey to be part of Israel's region?

bigross86

How does this not apply to Israel? Can you seriously tell me that with all the tumult in the Middle East, Israel's actions don't affect the world? What about the Israeli Lobby in Congress? Surely they affect some things in Congress. I claim that Israel IS a Superpower, at least by one of the definitions.

There were two parts to that definition. A Basic, and a Supporting Clause to strengthen the Basic. Even without the Supporting Clause to strengthen the Basic, the Basic still stands alone. Israel fills the definition of that Basic, and even though it doesn't fulfill the Supprting Clause, the Basic still stands and is valid.

(This is kinda sad, what Talmud classes will do to you...)

bigross86

Israel trades with alot of people. Like Ray said, the Agriculture which Israel relies upon and it's trade is sold throughout the world, and Israel's military equipment is also sold worldwide, i.e. India, Pakistan, etc...

There are also bankers, stock investers and other professions that work on the world market. Plus there are all the local businesses that keeps the country running.

Physically, yes, but on a geo-political level, no. Israel and Turkey are close allies, and have never been included in the Middle East troubles and violent way of life, at least in regard to Israel. Israeli and Turkish forces have trained together, and in fact a major deal to import water from Turkey to Israel due to the shortage in Israel was signed just least year

Officer of Engineers

Because the G7 countries are powerful and influential nations with influences far more reaching and far more in depth than Israel. None, except the US, claims superpowerdom. Japan, with a far more powerful navy than Israel, caused world stocks to fluctuate by mere threat of defaulting on some loans. Japan's economic and military might (for all intents and purposes, Japan can defeat China in the only kind of war Japan will fight - naval) within the Asian community is far more powerful than Israel's position and yet, Japan does not claim regional superpowerdom.

Israel is a powerful and influential nation, no doubt. But does that make it a superpower? Even within the region? No doubt Israel can defeat the combined Arab armies but can she conquer the entire area? There are checks against Israel within the region, some of them military.

Israel has one friend in the region, Turkey. What happens to your military equation if the Turks were pitted against Israel?

Do you mean "turmoil?" I agree that the Middle East is a mess right now and that Israel stands heads and shoulders (minus Turkey) above its neighbours but that's a tempoary thing. The region was united several times, the last time under the Ottoman Turks and less than 100 years ago. The current situation cannot last. Sooner or later, the Arabs will find a charasmatic, strong, and smart leader. Unless Israel is continually working to destablize local regiemes (ala Bzyantine Empire), her relative position is going to disappear.

bigross86

Israel itself has not claimed that it is a regional superpower, much like Japan. I however, am claiming that given the definitions of Superpower, Israel can be called one.

As for destabilizing the region so the Arabs can't unite, I'm pretty sure that the Israeli's will continue to do just that.

Officer of Engineers

Let me rephrase. In what kind of store in Canada (or anywhere around the world) would I see Israeli products dominate the shelves? And aside from the big ticket items (cars, etc), if I walk into a dept store (you name the type) in Israel, whose country's products dominate the shelves?