Fury

Wow! That's some speech and many good points there, took me a while to read it all I would like to know more about this war in 1973 what ever is called, anyone has a link or some other info on that, Im really interested, thx

ZFBoxcar

1) OOE is not American, even so your bigotry against Americans will not be tolerated on this forum.
2) If OOE was being impolite discussing Israel's tank experience, you were being phsycotic
3) I happen to agree with a couple points you made about 1973, but that doesn't excuse you.

I find it ironic that you complain about someones attitude while going ballistic over the most minute slight.

This is your warning.

bigross86

The 1973 battles are formally known as the Yom Kippur War, or the October War. On Yom Kippur, the Jewish Day of Atonement, which is the most holiest day of the year, when everyone, Jew and non Jew alike, religous or non-religous stops what they're doing ad the country comes to a complete halt. O this day the Arab countries staged a surprise attack on many friends, and the tank battles were horrendous. It is (one of) the worst wars the IDF has had to fight, thought it has amazing stories as well. One of them is the CONFIRMED story of Avigdor Kahalani, who with 3 moving tanks and a couple of active, stationary tanks destroyed many Syrian tanks, and stalled the whole Syrian army on the Golan Heights. Had the Syrians stormed the hills, they would have been able to take them easily, but Avigdor and his men we're shooting so accurately and destroying so many tanks that the Syrians were too frightened to attempt to take the hills. You can read about it in Avigdor Kahalani's book, Oz 77 (Oz=Glory, which was his callsign)

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...y/1973toc.html

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zimbrul

kazak,

I"m new here to but I'm trying to read careful first before start bashing on somebody.

First ,the thread is about asian tanks so in this case The Colonel (OoE) wasn't talking about american technology, second of all he's not american (and anyway we take much offense when you claim there's no professionalism here) and third or maybe even first if you'll look over the forum you can see what his background and expertise he's got.
Since we're talking abot Asia including Rusia too, I guess he's right there's no other country there with that kind of experience. Just in the Kursk situation the russians had 3600 tanks, 20,000 artillery pieces and had laid around 400,000 land mines.
Meantime israelis, all due respect, had no tank until the Merkava ,relying only on imports.

Colonel he's all yours! Enjoy

kazak

1. If he isnt american, then its even more strange he so pro-american, but then again, americans are brainwashing us all.
2. What i said wasnt bigotry against americans at all, i happen to like USA, i just diligently explained what i dont like and what is wrong in the attitude of some americans. Now, i do sense that this forum has a tad of bigotry against some nations - it is common to speak of russians as "russkies", or "the former communist trolls" or something, and laugh on them till you get blue, but of course a single word against the americans is not allowed.
3. It is nice of you to admit Engineer was impolite speaking about israel.
4. I wasnt psychotic, i just happened to pay attention to his style, and answer him, explaining him what was wrong with what he have said. My style had nothing in it that wasnt already in his messages.
5. Yes, i complain about his attitude because i happened to read few of his messages, and i didnt go ballistic, i just answered him and proved everything i said. The difference between what he did and what i did, is that I reacted to unjustified impoliteness, while he attacked without a reason, just cos he is used to behave so.
6. So, I am surprized you are warning me, i am not dangerous at all.

Jay

OofE happened to have faced the Russian divisions (which by far fielded thousands of tanks litreally), he was a Lt.Col in the Engineering corps, so he does know a thing or two about tank warfare than the armchair generals we happened to see here. He seems to have a valid reason to talk the way he talked, coz he knows the stuff and he experienced the same.

Now its just not Israel in Asia with vast tank experience, take the case of Indian and Pakistan. We happened to have large scale (thousands of tanks)tank battles in 1965 and in 1971.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Hi...ar/Suresh.html
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-F...y/Patton3.html
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-F...y/Patton2.html

Same with COIN operations, Indian Army and Border Security Forces have been fighting a closed quarter urban warfare with terrorists in Kashmir for 20 years now. We dont follow Israel's tactics in India, we dont use helicopter gunships nor tanks to run down the city streets.

Same with Srilanka...they are fighting a guerilla force that far superior to any of the groups that Israel faces for almost 25 years now.

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ZFBoxcar

He is a Colonel in the Canadian Forces. I'm also Canadian and pro-American (although I don't know where you get the assumption that OOE is pro-American). I don't think there is anything morally wrong with siding with the free world (of which Israel is a part) over a bunch of despots who rule the UN.

Yes, we deride the trolls who from time to time plague our forum. There have been a couple communists, so its not wrong to call them that. Calling a Russian a Russkie is like calling an American a Yank, which we don't stop anyone from doing.

You have to understand, OOE has a lot of military experience and expertise, so most of the time knows what he's talking about. People who are very sure of themselves can sometimes be rude or come off that way.

As long as you stick to the topic rather than look for personality flaws you should be fine.

zimbrul

kazak ,

Again reeead man reeead. He said You are psychotic if you understood that.Read man ....wait ...no ... read and understand what people mean.

kazak

1. People, dont gang up on me, just try to "read and understand" a bit more yourselfs.
2. To Zimbrul im not gonna answer, he talks too funy and says strange things.
3. Jay - quote me on saying that *only* israel has vast experience with tanks. (BTW, i adore our Indian friends).
4. Boxcar, okay, you seem the only one here that is saying something meaningful. Nothing wrong with siding with the "free world" (except that you call it that way, others are calling it with others, less flattering names), but i wasnt complaining that you people take american side in the Cold War or something, i was complaining about the fact that you are not objective when it comes to analyzing western and eastern tactics or weaponry. Now, being pro-free-world in such analyses is ridiculous, and is considered, in fact, unprofessional. Reeeead, and understand, like zambrul said, dont put words in my mouth, people.
5. Oh, now speaking about despots that rule the UN is kinda ironic after talking about "the free world".
6. It is wrong to call a communist "a troll", just beacuse he is a communist, beacuse of his ideas. are you still in 1954, man?
7. Yankee is not like "russkie", in the US "russkie" always had demining and highly insulting sense.
8. I, personally like You very much, beacause you talk sense, and not as haughty as others here. You admit that people like the engineer can seem rude somethimes.
9. I know he is some sort of former military man, or something (i said i know he has great ammount of knowledge) and this is why his style surprizes me so much, along with his non-objectiveness.

zimbrul

Tell me friend what are those strange things that I've said if you follow the thread ?

ZFBoxcar

Where was anyone on this forum unobjective about technology? If you mean OOE, why do you think his opinion is unobjective (stylistic issues asside)?

This isn't the right thread for this discussion, but I would be glad to discuss this with you on another thread or if you have MSN we can discuss it there.

We suffered a forum invasion by a group of communists who were trolls. It doesn't mean all communists are trolls. It means the ones we are talking about were. And it is acceptable to insult communism just as it is acceptable to insult capitalism.

Officer of Engineers

Your words.

If that is not insulting, then you need a lesson in English.

You have shown no knowledge of the biggest tank battle in history and it did last months. The Battle of Kursk between two legendary generals that the Israelis have no equal - Von Manstien and Zukhov.

The Israelis fought the Arabs of which they cannot be compared to the Wehrmacht nor the Red Army. I personnally counted 1000 tanks staring at me over the Berlin Wall. Yeah, right, the Israelis were prepared against those odds.

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Chimo

kazak

Engineer if this is all you have to say about all the things i have talked about, then you better admit you are wrong and give up.
If you check the complete russian information book with the names of all the herous of the Soviet Union, you will find this person with the same last name as mine there, even mentioned along side the name of this great battle, so you are the last one that should accuse me of "showing no knowledge of the biggest tank battle in history". Now, are you saying that this battle continued day and night for all those months or are you ready to admit it wasnt all made of continuous tank fighting? Actually "the battle of Kursk" (Kurskaya Duga) was something that was called "campaign" in russia in that time, and if im not mistaken, germans referred to it by this name too. The tank battles were a small part of that huge campaign, and really, the greatest tank fight in history was under Prochkorovka, and lasted for a couple of hours. I think i begin to suspect you dont know what you talk about.
Btw, Zhukov, one of the "two legendary generals that the Israelis have no equal" to, was a cruel, limited, ruthless man, that took all the glory from other great gernerals. Just try to read the memoirs (unabridged) of the russian generals of that time. I agree he got "legendary", but he doesnt deserve that, believe me, take my word for this. In the Berlin battle he was eager to take the city and quoted by his officers saying "Yeah, we'll get 3000 tanks into the city, that should make it, and i dont care if we loose most of them". Indeed, a legendary general Israelis have no match to.

kazak

p.s. "Yeah, right, the Israelis were prepared against those odds" HUH?? What is this? what odds? how? when? face where? face in what way? what conflict? facts? Havent i already talked about that? Sorry, you may be a former officer or something but you talk like a 15yo boy, this is funny.

zimbrul

I don't know why we bother ?!