Alex

And also there's Baikal-Amur Railroad (known as BAM in Russia).

Praxus

They also have to have roads going out that way as well.

Garry

do you mean 100 miles in combat? will they be able to move 100 miles on a country walking? If we streach a bit your statement of 100miles, then you would see that most communication lines in Siberia are in the range of 400km from Russian border and all of them would be in the range of 800km - not far by Russian, Chinese and Siberian terms. In old times (before Mongolia was independent) it was impossible to secure yourself for either side - the border was too long and you could not hold guarding forces all along - both built the railroads along the border and formed a points where amries were located. Stalin was smart and he gave Mongolia independence thus curring the border with China into two parts - easter and western. Now Russia could easily transport forced along the border but China would have to go around Mongolia. Hence it they would invade they would do it at eastern part on most probably Chita direction, where they have better road infrustructure. Russian forcers are focused there as well, but their support lines are streatched to more than 6,000km.... quite vulnerable in comparison to Chinese which are just couple of hundred km from large cities.

Why I was asking about how long Chinese may actually walk into Siberia if no combat is met is because there is not need to have large scale battles in Siberia. My statement may sound strange but there would be no need to flood Siberia to take it over. In such a large territory like Siberia you need to take over only few central locations/transporation centers, not all the forests there...... it was proven during the Civil war when first White Army and then Red Army has been fighting local Kozaks.

Officer of Engineers

I mean 100 miles period. Their doctrine, the War Zone Campaign, does not stretch that far.

__________________
Chimo

Anon

If anyones LOCs are going to be interdicted it's China's.

An attack into Russia would be entirely dependent on the continuing survival of a handful of Chinese rail bridges.

The Russians take those out, anyone north of them is toast.

Alex

Considering advantage in aviation Russians still have, Chinese have no chance...

Anon

Those rail bridges are about the only thing in Clancys book Bear and the Dragon that is realistic, lol.

If the Russians took out those bridges there'd be a lot of dudes walking back to China....lol.

They are very robust bridges though.

In the book the Americans use the 4700lb US deep throat penetrators to take them out.

No idea if the Russians have an equivelant weapon.

A tactical nuke would do quite nicely though....hehehehe.

The only scene i actually enjoyed in that book was when the USN closed with the Chinese coast and started taking it under fire with 5" guns.

LOL, that would be great.

needlejr

Mongols did not quite "conqour" russia. rather they attaked, won, and demanded payment. They continued to come and ask for money and slaves ( dan' ) for 300 years. This was far easier to acomplish than it seemes, as Russia as such did not exist. Rather a large number of semi indepndent principalities and cities vying for power and controll. Further more the cities would not even have permanent rulers, rather the princes cuese around, being asked to come and rule for a while and sent packing again. All of that was exploited and used by the monglols/tatars and they did not have to worry about facing a united army. Some places like the principlaity of Novgorod being quite powerfull in thewir own right were largely left untoched by the monglos all together.

What is perhapse more interesting is that the mongols were themselves used. Particularly by Moskow. original mentions of moskow were from the mongols themselves, and went something like "Saw a vilage o moskow, burnt it. Inhabitans ran into the forsets." over the 300 years of the mongol yoke moskovite princes becam more and more powerfull, they would collect the money for the tartars and gathered power. whenever they needed an enemy removed they would send the tartars agains them. ("they didnt wana pay your taxes gp get them") and so Moskow used mongols to build a coalition and a unified state.

Once the untied state was born the golden horde was first repeled, and later subjucated - permanently.

needlejr

as for WINTER...

it is interesting how winter is named as the reson for every vicotry the russian forces have had.

May I propose those who would hold that view image themselves as a potential invador. What would be your concirn? Winter. It is NOT a russian state secret. It is Not the great surprise tacktic. It always comes. It is always the same, more or less.

Napoleon knew winter would come. So did Hitler. And they DID try to deal with it.

Napoleon planed to take Moskow long before winter. And he did. He simply could not imagine that the population of the city would leave before he came, that the russian army would not fight a final battle and rather manuver and maintain operational capability. So napoleon bing a smart man decided to move south. to warmer climates. to places where his armies would forage easily. however his invincible armies were stoped. stoped by russain soldiers. again and again. only one path was unprotected - back the same way. the way that was already pilaged. that way that had no more food left. that is what kiled the french. they were all dead when they started to eat their prised cavalry horces. It was not the cold that finished them - it was hunger. they sotped being an army, and then they did die form cold and cossak sabers.

Hitler had the same plan. he just failed to take moskow in the first place. he failed to get to it during the summer. not beacuse it snows in russian in June, but because there were enogh division sacrificing themselves to stop german adavnce. because enogh fo them would continue to fight when surrounded. because russian cities were not Paris, and you did not get walk though them in a parade formation.

As for winter? yes it comes. yes it is cold. for both sides. its equaly harsh to eather side. russains are not an alien species, they have same problems with cold weather as other eruopeans. it just so happens that in defence of their home land they seem to be willing to endure hardships the enemy is not.

In eather case, the germans being some hard core people survived the winter. And even maintained superiority in numbers (after massive loses at the start of the war russian army numbered less then german by the start of moscow counteratack) and in mechanised units. it took a few more years to secure a victory. and it was mostly acomplished by superior military technology and unbelibable tenacity of russian troops.

Anon

Oh, i would argue that a Russian is more acclimated to his own climate than a European is.

You can put an eskimo outside in -10 below, he probably wouldn't even think it was that cold out. Me, being from philly, would be freezing my dick off at the same temp.

It's what you're acclimated to my friend.

Praxus

Put an Eskimo in Philly and he would last 5 minutes before getting his balls shot off

Anon

Lol

Alex

Russians are more acclimated, but it doesn't mean they can sleep naked in the snow. Everyone properly dressed can survive at -20C, it's nothing special.

Anon

It doesn't matter that all can survive. If you're acclimated to the climate you'll be more capable because you'll be more used to it. Take a man from siberia, drop him in the Panama jungle in August, and see how he handles it. He'd be far less effective than a native of the region.
It also helps to be a native of the land you're fighting on immensely. You'll have intimate knowledge of the terrain that the enemy won't. That is a handy edge in war.
The Russians enjoyed that Advantadge against all invaders, as does everyone defending their homeland against a foriegn enemy.

Germany is no doubt a cold climate, but compared to the Russian climate around Moscov, it's downright pleasant.

Regardless, the Russians are fierce warriors, particularly when on the defensive. There is no disputing that.

-{SpoonmaN}-

There are lots of reasons why China will not pose a serious threat to any major power (USA, Russia, Japan) until at least 2015:

1. Their Air Force is so out of date it's not funny, and it's only now that they're catching up to the rest of the world.

2. Their army is huge, but it's badly trained and really badly equipped and really really badly organised, and even though the Russian Army has a lot of problems, it would still anhilate the PLA.

3. Their Navy is small, old and has no major warships like Cruisers, Carriers or nuclear attack subs. Their range is very limited.

4 They couldn't afford the expense of mobilising for that kind of war anyway, in fact it's pretty unlikely that any nation would be able to fight a global-scale war without a damn good reason.