TopHatter

Assuming of course that they find sufficient rolling stock to get them from the factory to the front, keep them supplied with fuel, properly maintained and sufficient bridging units to allow them to cross the less-than-sturdy crossings in the field...

Bluesman

That general that I hang with told me that when he was a company CO in Vietnam, they found an AK-47 buried in a dike with their mine detector. The First Sergeant unwrapped the burlap sack it was in, slapped the mag in and ripped off the whole thang, like it just came out of the armory.

Yeah, it's true.

__________________
"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell

Tronic

yeh... If the Germans had that many Tigers, they wouldn't complain about all that.... the problem was that the Tiger tank was one heavy monster and they couldn't keep them rolling out of the factories at the same pace they needed their tanks...

yes, during the Vietnam War, the Ak-47 was a much more reliable and much more powerful weapon then the M-16... especially the guerilla tactics that were employed in the Jungles is what made the Ak-47 even more deadlier... You can call the Ak-47 more of a machine gun then an assault rifle... its not as accurate as the M-16 but it is very rugged and much more powerful(I don't know about current M-16s... referring to the Vietnam war...). And as for the Soviet T-34.... that is known as one of the major weapons in defeating Nazi Germany....

__________________
Nabha Sparasham Deeptam
-Touch The Sky With Glory

TopHatter

Sure they'd complain about that.

Who wants a tank that can't be adequately supplied with fuel? That's called a pillbox.

The Germans would have been better served with larger numbers of Panthers, IMHO.

Tronic

Panthers were hugely outnumbered by the T-34 and the Shermans... The Tiget tank had a much larger range and much stronger armour then the T-34 or the Sherman... usually a single Tiger tank could take out 4-5 Shermans before being overrun....

leib10

You mean Sherman.

And yes Tophatter, I believe that lots more Panthers would've boded well for the Germans.

__________________
"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." G-Man

Tronic

lol... ouch... I edited...

Garry

I recently read the memories of Zhukov about 1944-45 operations. He stated that German division were quite inefficient in stopping Russian T-34 armies from breaking though and encircling those tank divisions BECAUSE OF MIX. Indeed most German divisions had few Tigers/Panther’s or heavy anti-tank self propelleds mixed with other lighter tanks like Type III and Type IV. However this divisions moved with the SPEED OF THE SLOWEST TANK IN THE RANK!!! Moreover it rarely got splitted!!! Hence the few Tigers or other heavy vehicles slowed down the mobility of the whole division!!!

On the opposite Zhukov’s tank divisions and armies were HOMOGENOUS. For example 3rd guard tank army had only T-34-85 in its ranks… 4th guard army had mix of T-34-76 and SU-100 on the T-34 platform. No MIX OF HEAVY TANKS. Due to this these armies had very impressive mobility… Imagine when the force of THOUSAND tanks become highly mobile and covers 600km in your rear in just 7 days? Whenever they met heavy tanks of other pockets of resistance they would move ahead around these and don’t waste time…

And what happened to those German tank divisions in encirclement? Especially with heavy Tiger which needed refueling almost every next day? They had to fight on a small area or could make only one relocation on their internal fuel. In encirclement this meant no chance to escape/break though. They were abandoned in hundreds… disabled though….

Zhukov in his memory notes also criticized the use of the heavy tank brigades in Red Army. THEY WERE ALWAYS LATE. In his view whenever you need a heavy tank brigade they are 3-4 days away…. By the time they arrive situation changed and there was little need in those heavy tanks.

So in his memories he stated that Germans could have had been much more efficient in counter attacking his tank armies if they had some mobile formations made of only Panzer IV…. These could have moved up to 150km away from initial location and attacked the flanks of his advancing tank armies. However we know what happened…..

TopHatter

Yup. Even late in the war, a formation of Mark IV's would have prompted that dreaded radio call "Enemy tanks in the rear!!".

Triple C

During Patton's campaign in Lorraine the US Army had about 2:1 superiority in the number of infantry, 2.5:1 in guns, 20:1 in tanks. I can see how having a greater number of panthers would be useful, considering the latter's longer operational raidius and formidable combat power in its own right.

Vietnam era M-16's Achilles heel was its unreliability. The US Army, contrary to Eugine Stoner's advice, adopted low grade corrosive propellant for its M-16s, and combined with carbon build-up, badly damaged the firing mechanism of the M-16! They have not worked out the quirks of the M-16 before fielding it, and its never a good idea to use a prototype as a standard weapon... too many soldiers were told that the rifle was self-cleaning o_O

I haven't heard any scientifically substantiated complaint for the lack of power for the M-16. In jungle range 5.56 is very deadly.

Tronic

In close range encounters(which was the strategy used by the VC) the Ak-47 bullets could pierce right through the tree trunks and hit troops taking cover behind them....

Garry

Hi Triple C,

I have impression that West European theatre had much smaller distances which allowed Germans have higher effect from their heavy tanks in DEFENSE even under heavy air attacks. However with alies having air dominance - fuel deliveries were rare - in attacks German heavy armor was less efficient.

Indeed, in Eastern Front bad road infrustructure and frontline which last for THOUSANDS OF MILES did not let fast relocation of heavy tank formations. Hence once a much lighter T-34 armies encircled them though weaker parts in the front, they could not move long distance to attack enemy's flanks.... you are tanker and you know - every tank has some autonomity... but without fuel/ammounition supplies it is just matter of time when its crew would have to abandon it.

What I read is that thanks to Ford Trucks, T-34 equipped tank armies had MUCH higher mobility and autonomity.

For example in 1945 Soviet tank armies has broke through more than 1,600km into Jappanese army's rears!!! More that 100km per day... and that were THOUSANDS of tanks. That is AMAZING logistical achievement.

Could an army equipped with heavy Tigers have done such a raid?

Anon

LOL, yeah....sure.

Anon

What happened next General?

Well sir, panic set in.

Tronic

hey... dude... I'm just telling you what Discovery told me..... the Ak-47 has a greater penitration (shooting through walls or trees) then the M-16...