kams

Rafael recently unveiled an upgraded version of SPYDER SR called SPYDER MR (medium range - up to 35 km). Wonder Indian Army now Indian Army will go for this version?

Rafael expands SPYDER capabilities

Eurosatory 2006: Rafael expands SPYDER capabilities

hound

'you're as clueless as the other wanna-be commie. Yet more reason to despise the lot of you.'

dude the reason you hate the russians is because they would not let you hatemongers in the west employ the evil right-wing nazi agenda on the rest of the world........that's why you were complaining the 'russians lost the cold war but are still obstructing'. just like the nazis, us has attacked and bombed only small nations like vietnam, iraq, korea, greneda, panama, serbia etc. etc. the day you face off against anybody substaintial you will know the reasons why us came to a standstill in the katarina tropical strom. like said before, cold war is over and accept the changed set up. the amount of hate that is among the people in the west gives a glimpse of the fact why the highest number of child molesters and child rapists are in the us. guess when the hate cannot be dumped on others, they start to dump in on their own people that like mafia guys, when they have killed off others they start killing each other.

HistoricalDavid

...Eh, typing intelligible, well-structured English is a great asset, you know.

Germany and Japan. The latter defeated almost single-handedly.

The Nazis took on Russia, Britain and America. Hardly small nations, again.

Iraq and Vietnam were not small by any stretch of the imagination. The former had the fourth largest army in the world, and the latter was well-supplied by a certain big backer. In addition, they defended Europe at the same time against commie invasion.

Selective history is a horrifically potent manipulative tool, especially in the hands of people like you.

I suppose other far worse natural or manmade civil disasters - ranging from the Great Leap Forward and the Asian Tsunami or that Chinese earthquake in the seventies in which something like 255,000 died or 25,000 people dying from heatstroke in Europe or the Ukrainian Terror Famine or the North Korean famine or the Khmer Rouge - huuuuuuh *breath!* - should be taken as evidence of military weakness on the part of that nation?

What the random hell kind of fact is that?

Are there even accurate figures for other countries?

Had enough of talking like a YO PIMP? "Yo, don't hate on me!"

hound

russia has twice paid the price for trusting the nazis:

1939 stalin's pact with hitler ended in operation barbarosa which killed off 30m russians had 75% of the country disappeared.

1991 yeltsin trusted the us and induced shock thearpy on russia's 70 year old communist economy, us would not give a dime to support the crumbling industries, the result depression where 80% of the economy sunk. the us put further pressure by expanding the nato right upto the chin of russia.

wonder what the result would have been if su under gorby had opted for china/india style reforms, these economies are growing at 6 to 10% a year rate for the last decade and a half.

the question is why do not people learn from the history and get sucked up in the fake glitter.

HistoricalDavid

The Russians had 75% of the country disappeared?

Russia's losses in WWII were easily the most horrific of any side, but not to the extent of 75% population or territory lost.

The US did give money to maintain Russia's nuclear arsenal. Billions, in fact.

More like, Eastern Europe wanted to join NATO.

Russia had and has other problems apart just being communist and now being a transition economy, like atrocious national health.

You don't learn from history because you seemingly don't know any history. Sorry.

gunnut

It's simple. We overwhelm our enemy with technology and numbers from all directions. We spent billions of dollars to make it look simple. The whole idea is "disproportionate" response. We want a completely lopsided fight in our favor. It's only hard because not many nations can afford this type of warfare.

Obviously. No one else can pull that off.

Russians didn't fire 1 or 2 missiles at the U2. They launched salvos. Those missiles didn't score direct hits. They may not even have physically damaged the U2. They couldn't reach the altitude the U2 was operating at. So they detonated under the plane and used the shock wave to knock it out of the sky.

U2 has a very narrow operating envelope at that altitude, something like flaming out at 420mph and breaking up at 435mph (memory is a bit fuzzy, and these numbers are what is disclosed by the CIA). The shockwave most likely stalled the engine and Gary Powers couldn't get it fired up in time and climb back to safety.

One more thing, MiGs used to make suicide attacks at U2s because they couldn't reach the altitude. They made shallow dives to gain speed and then climb as far as possible toward the U2. Then they fire their guns before stalling. Hopefully they could recover from the stall or restart their engine to rescue their planes before crashing. If they crashed, they may had to face disciplinary actions from their commanders, or even worse, the commies from the polibureau.

Yes. A very smart Serbian commander and a very poor planning on NATO's part resulted in the same F-117 passing through the same air space night after night at the same time from the same direction at the same speed getting shot down within spitting distance of the missile battery.

GIGO, garbage in garbage out. No amount of technology can rescue a poor plan.

Iraqis were well trained and well motivated. So are our guys. The technology made the difference. Or are you hinting Iraqis sucked at fighting?

__________________
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

Anon

The 'evil' agenda of ending world terror?

Yeah...that campaign must be stopped at all costs.

OK, you asked for it:

French-Indian War: American colonists and British face off against Canadians, French(one of two major world powers at the time), and Canadian indian tribes.

Result: US/British victory.

US Revolutionary war: England was one of two world superpowers at that time.

Result: US Victory

US War of 1812: England was one of two world superpowers at that time.

Result: Bloodbath for both sides - tactical victorys for both sides- ceasefire/truce implemented. Even after losing Wash DC, the US refused to surrender.

US civil war: US faces off against the South. Over 1 million die in the bloodiest war in US history.

Result: unconditional Union(US) victory.

US-Indian wars: Union(US) seeks to expand it's borders and systematically eradicates all Native American opposition(who were among the bravest most motivated warriors on earth).

Result: Total US victory.

US-Mexican war: US forces under Gen Sam Houston, out-numbered approx 5:1 face off against legendary Mexican General Vera Cruz, "The napoleon of the East".

Result: In a single battle US forces utterly destroy Vera Cruz's command and capture him. US uncondtional victory.


Spanish American war: Spain was one of the top 3 world powers at that time.

Result: US victory.

WWI: US joins allies against Axis powers.

Result: Allied victory.

WWII, Pacific: US almost singlehandedly fights the largest military campaign in the HISTORY OF MANKIND in a theater that covers in excess of 1/3 of the world's surface against what was at the time the pre-eminent naval power in the East.

Result: Unconditional US victory.

WWII, Altantic: US launches largest strategic bombing campaign and largest amphibious invasion in history against Germany and Italy. US utterly destroys Luftwaffe, and together with Britian utterly destroys the German homeland from the air.

Result: Unconditional US victory.

Korean War, Phase I: US faces off against 1 million man strong DPRK army.

Result: Total US victory as the US advanced to within 3 miles of Yalu river.

Korean war, Phase II: US forces- strung out after advancing hundreds of miles- face off against approx. 300,000 man Chinese invasion force(some sources will quote a much larger Chinese force), and fights the Communists to a standstill.

Result: Tie.

Vietnam War: US faces off against one of the most legendary guerilla forces in modern history and eventually all but defeats insurgency and US/ARVN also defeats 1st massive N.Vietnamese conventional invasion. Congress cuts off funding to S.Vietnam. S.Vietmanese fall to communists.

Result: Utterly mismanaged stupidity that eventually ends in a hamstrung ARVN defeat.

Desert Storm: US attacks into densest national IADS network in the world via air with minimal loss. US invades Iraq/Kuwait and destroys third largest army in the world in 100 hours.

Result: Single most one sided victory in any major war in the history of mankind.

Ahem.....PWNED.

Son, you know NOTHING about the US military record(obviously), so you probably ought to shut up and listen for a while before you make yourself look like an even bigger asss than you already have.

The day the US 'fights someone major'.....LOL....nit wit.

dalem

America is the same as Nazi Germany? Interesting.

If you read or recall ACTUAL history, and not the version you apparently believe, you will note that American investment was attempted, but Yeltsin's drunken mismanagement of Russia torpedoed any hope of it working.

Russian pathological paranoia is amazing when one sees it at work right in front of one's eyes.

-dale

Canmoore

Correct me if I am wrong, but Vietnam had a larger military numerically than America did.

And also, America was not alone in attacking Iraq, Korea, Serbia. In vietnam and Korea, it was a war to prevent the spread of Communism. In Serbia it was to stop a Genocide. In Panama and Iraq it was to overthrow a Dictator who opressed there own people.

Anon

Word.

gunnut

Wrong again. Nazis attacked France and the Soviet Union. Wait. I apologize. Those were small 3rd world nations of little consequence. You are correct.


Quick, the US is better than us in every respect, let's pick on their poor and stupid people for living in a flood zone that's actually BELOW the sea level. I'd like to see what other nations can pull off in an environment like that. France lost 15000 people to some pathetic heatwave 3 years ago. Do you know that? Europe as a whole lost 40000 lives in the same heatwave. That's 40 times the death count of Katrina. 40 TIMES!!!

That's right. Let the big boys play now. You are no longer a super power. Only a regional power with lots of nukes.

We don't hate Russians. We hate commies. And what does that have to do with child molesters? Your obsession with children worries me.

Now you're on the mob. That made absolutly no sense at all.

Anon

Correct on all counts.

hound

I am not interested in wars before WWI:

WWI: US had allies joined together.....victory was evenhanded, US did not play any herioc role.

WWII: Japan compared to US was still a small country with much smaller industrial base. Remember Pearl Harbor, if kamakazis had taken out the oil tankers, the US Navy would have been stranded for long time, sitting ducks. Still, kudos US.....fought well against fanatical enemy. European theatre: Western front was a joke compared to eastern operations. When US entered the war, Germans were already 50% spent up so no bigge that their airforce was soon out of action. WWII was won by SU and US/UK others chipped in when they saw that sooner or later SU will prevail anyways.

Korea I&II: DPRK vrs US, still a third world with old type Soviet euiptment, US had to win. Number of men does not matter in modern weapons wars. Wonder how many of Koreans were loading their rifles and shooting two round before having to load again.

Vietnam: US fought with one hand tied behind the back, no doubt, the end result, 2 million vietnamese murdered. insanity.

Desert Storm: Brezhnev era army facing off the top line weapons of the superpower. does not matter how dense the AD were over Bagdhad, makes no difference if they are out of the range AAA or missiles. Worst, the Dictator did more to harm his own army with stupid tactics than help. Iraq had only 5% chance of pulling a stalemate.

Guess it all brings down to US has such large size that anybody other than Soviet Union would not match its power. Put British, French, Germans, Chinese on one to one vrs us and they will meet the same result sooner or later.

and this brings to the logic of the last paragraph: US vrs SU and now Russia. US knows the heavyweight matchup reality and that is why it is creeping nato eastward and building pressure. then again presence of nukes make any conventional discussion futile......pretty much.

Hitler's agenda was anti Jewish because he blamed them for woes of Germany after WWI and that is why he hated the commies because Communism was Jewish creation: Marx, Lenin, Trotsky and others. Once the Jews have been sent to Israel and US and Communism is dead except in NK and Cuba, the US should also change its agenda and hostility towards Russia and its allies who are not or have never been communist. Not doing so, confirms that US has a NAZI type agenda of itself and is constantly working on it.

Regarding all this cry and wimper about WAR ON TERROR, well that is a creation of US and its murderous deeds in the last 20 years. Wonder why this war on terror is being fought ONLY against nations that are close to Russia, Iraq, Iran, Syria etc. why not Pakistan or Saudi Arabia or Egypt which have strong terrorist bases and fundings. Hypocracy will in the end be defeated and it is being defeated right at this very moment.

Anon

Probably because a look at the complete US war record dating back even before the United States inception makes your argument that "the US has never fought a first rate power" look completely stoopid.

The fact is the US has fought EVERY MAJOR WORLD POWER(including the Soviet Union) of the last two centuries at one time or another, and has never once been decisively defeated in any military campaign.

Same is true for every Allied combatant in that war.

Except the Russians....who surrendered and sued for peace.

Compared to Russia Germany is a small country.

I'd also point out that the 'small country' of Japan had NO PROBLEM biitch slapping the British Royal Navy, invading and largely conquering the most populous nation on earth...and not too many years prior had utterly anhillated the better part of the Russian navy.

Your logic sucks.

And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle...

But regardless, the fact that the US PACFLT got biitch-slapped in a surprise attack and that in less than 9 months we had siezed the initiative and were in a full scale general offensive really tells you just how good the US is at the business of war.

In a single battle, the US utterly anhilated the IJN carrier fleet....the single most advanced and combat experienced carrier fleet in the world at that time. Kido Butai was a truly elite carrier TF, by any measure of the word.

Until they ran into Enterprise, Yorktown, and Hornet.

Within a matter of hours three largely unexperienced US carriers had converted the most elite naval force in the world into an artificial reef.

Without a devastated German homeland/industry(caused SOLELY by the US and UK), a destroyed Luftwaffe that had to be majoritively commited to the West(destroyed pretty much courtesy the P-51 mustang), without the UTTERLY massive aid of Lend-lease(300,000 trucks, 7,000 locomotives just to name a few absolutely indispensible items the us sent to the SU), and without a second AND third front(Italy and Germany), the Russians were never going to win.

Period.

Even WITH all that Russia did come pretty close to losing though.

Number of men doesnt matter? Is this more of your kindergarden level military analysis?

"It is the unconquerable nature of man and not the nature of the weapon he uses that ensures victory."
~General George S. Patton

War is insanity. That's what it's ALL ABOUT.

"Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime. Ask the infantry and ask the dead."
~ Ernest Hemingway

Are you aware of the age-old military truism that states, "The attacker must maintain a 4:1 numerical advantadge in men and materiel to succeed."

Are you?

Cause son, the coalition did it with a 1:2 numerical INFERIORITY.

And like i said, many US systems were dated to the Brezhnev era.

The F-14, F-15, F-16(all late 60s to mid 70s designs). The A-10(early seventies design). The M-60 tank(early sixties design). The M-113 APC(early fifties design). The Hawk SAM(designed in 1960), the Cobra Attack Helo(designed in the late sixties)....and so on down the line.

Actually Iraq itself had what was widely held to be the most dense and comprehensive IADS in the world outside of the St Union. Iraq fella....Not Baghdad.

We're talking the entire nation here.

And um, the SA-2, SA-3, and SA-6 were all capable of reaching the altitude that all US planes operated at.

And the americans had a very good strategy. As usual.

I'd say that's a big part of the equation(and also helps to prove my point), thank you very much.

The US invaded the Soviet Union too. In 1918. With two US Army Regiments. We fought in Siberia for TWO YEARS, and left ON OUR SCHEDULE(in 1920, long after WWI had already ended), and with minimal casualties despite being outnumbered 100:1.

The US also faced top WWII Soviet Aces over Korea, and AT WORST held it's own against the very best Soviet pilots of all time who were flying a thoroughly modern and capable jet fighter.

Russia is currently no conventional threat to the US whatsovever. In a conventional war, the US would steamroll the Russian military in a matter of months(at most). The russian military is a rusting, underpaid, unprofessional, and obsolete shadow of what it once was.

US business tried to invest in Russia after the cold war(just as we did in all the former WP states). Putin has screwed all that up with his increasingly totalitarian and confrontational policies.

It's a shame, but i can hardly say i'm surprised...

gunnut

Marx, Lenin, and Trotsky were jews? I did not know that.

Mostly because Russia likes to be the counter-weight to US dominance in the world. They oppose everything we say and do, just to be different, much like the French. Ever notice all these nations are friendly to France as well?

And we do put the smack down on Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. But those 2 cases are slightly different. Their people hate us, but their governments are friendly to us, so we use different methods.

Notice how Pakistan, who grew the Taliban in the 90s to take care of its northern border, all of a sudden permitted US overfly rights to bomb the Taliban? Why do you think they did that? Out of good will? No. Most likely Bush called Mush and ordered him to open Pakistani air space, or else.