spittle8

Yes, but I was under the impression that 1st Cavalry was very mobile, that we could move them fast on a moments notice. I don't know how else you would define cavalry; might it mean more Bradleys than M-1A2s?

"The 101st is about as Airborne as the 10th is Mountain. For all intents and purposes it's historical and nothing more."

That saddens me greatly. I really liked the idea of the 10th mountain division being a 'mountain' division. They're not? I like the 101st, I thought they were more mobile than they apparently are. I was planning on trying to join the 101st. Which brings me to another question: can you try to join specific divisions when you sign up? I wouldn't really be that interested in being in the 82nd, and I like the idea of rapelling out of helicopters. Heh.

Finally, if we decided to go ape sh*t and try to go after the insurgents big time, could we deploy more troops to Iraq without pulling them out of other countries (besides here at home)? If we did this, what could we do?

Rifleman

The 1st Cavalry Division is an armored division. The Cavalry title is historic. Like Airborne and Mountain for the 101st and 10th.

Again, define mobile. Strategic or tactical? The 101st is way more mobile than the 82nd once they get in theatre. It's harder to get them there though.

__________________
"Aim small, miss small." - Benjamin Martin in The Patriot

Rifleman

It's the right tool for certain situations.

If the job calls for a lot of light infantry forces a parachute operation is the best way for a rapid build up of combat power. You can get a brigade combat team on the ground in about 30 minutes. Landing the aircraft one at a time and walking off takes much longer.

Grenada was a cluster. The troop buildup took a long time at Point Salinas airstrip. Aircraft were stacked up waiting to land. Panama had problems, but overall it went a lot smoother. Usually just one pass over the dropzone and everybody's out.

Safetywise it's about even. A C-130 can get shot out of the sky dropping parartoopers or blown up on the ground offloading troopers.

Wraith601

You can't join a specific unit but sometimes you can get your first duty station guaranteed in your contract which pretty much assures you you can get a specific unit but that particular option is becoming kinda rare I hear.

__________________
"We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be, detested in France."
-Sir Arthur Wellesley

Anon

True Cavlary units are for scouting, and they have a distinct composition of forces.

1st Cavalry Division is actually just a regular old Armor division(2bde of Abrams, 1 Bde of Bradleys as per usual under the old format) with a regular old armored mission.

The only true US mountain unit is a Vermont NG unit IIRC.

You can get certain schools guaranteed, such as Abn school or AASlt school or RIP(Ranger Indoctrination Program), but i don't think you can actually get the specific unit guaranteed(except the 75th, obviously).

[/quote]

Yes, we could definitely put more bodies in Iraq. Probably a couple more divisions worth. It would strain us....but we could do it.

Anon

I think 10 of the 13 Hercs that made a Ranger drop over Rio Hato took 23mm hits from a ZSU-23/2 that was guarding the airfield.

The emplacement was eventually taken out by a 160th SOAR littlebird after the two Apaches there to provide fire support had to scrub prematurely(one before they ever got on Tgt, the other after he fired maybe a couple dozen rounds of 30mm). It was an inauspicious start to the Apache's combat career, to say the least...

spittle8

Yes, we could definitely put more bodies in Iraq. Probably a couple more divisions worth. It would strain us....but we could do it.[/quote]

Awesome. Thanks for the insight, everyone.

Rifleman

I wasn't aware of that specifically but it doesn't surprise me. Still, you're as likely to encounter heavy mortars as anti aircraft, so the Hercs are still vulnerable if they land to off load. If you have to take an airfield sometimes it's a "pick your poison" situation.

Overall, I'd usually want to go for the airdrop, since it's allows for a faster troop build up on the ground. Heck, there have been numerous times that the confusion on the ground immediately after a parachute drop has sort of worked to the attackers advantage.

You know, I'm sort of hesitant to say this, but one of the reasons Mike Sparks (I know, I know) wants the Airborne to have organic light armored vehicles is so they can land some distance away from an airfield and manuever more effectively to take it from the ground.

That was sort of the T.E. Lawrence approach at Aquaba. The guns face the sea so come in with mobile forces from the land. Same principal.

Now, if Sparky were to learn a little tact and not be so abrasive maybe someone would listen to him.

Anon

Just for the record, I wasn't trying to dispute anything you said wrt your observations on when and how to use what assets where. Your military observations are typically absolutely dead on sound, and that's so in this case as well.

I was merely pointing out for the board that Rio Hato was NO cakewalk. We lost some good guys there that night. If i'm not mistaken we lost more guys in Panama in one night than during the actual invasion and conquest of Iraq.

The problem with Sparks (or his buddy Carlton Meyer who i actually used to write for a little bit) is not his ideas. It's his delivery. Air Mech is a good idea, and since OIF it's also to some extent a reality in the US Army.

Of course the russians have already been airmech for decades, lol.

PS: TE Lawrence was a smart SOB.

“With two thousand years of examples behind us we have no excuse, when fighting, for not fighting well.”
~T.E. Lawrence

Rifleman

Understood, you were making good points. I just make a habit out of defending my old branch. Seriously though, since the Airborne Divison is not likely to be deployed en masse in a divisonal role, many folks try to say that Air Assault type forces are the way to go across the board. Who needs a parachute jump? Land the helicopter and walk off.

Since WWII there have actually been a lot of parachute ops at the company through brigade level. Two in Korea; several in Vietnam, one with the 173rd and several with SF Mike Forces, the A-Teams jumped with the Montagnards they were advising; one in Grenada; one in Panama; one in Afghanistan; and one in northern Iraq.

The drop in northern Iraq was a great example of where a parachute operation was the best option. Helicopter forces could not have moved the distances involved. Not on Blackhawks. You'd have needed CH-53's and in flight refueling.

Anon

Any grunt can be air assault.(or light for that matter)

Not any grunt can(or would) jump out of a completely functional aircraft.

Even this nasty old leg can see that makes Airborne troops special.

They're especially brave and especially stoopid...all at once.

"We're airborne. Being completley surrounded by the enemy is normal."

Rifleman

Good 'un!

Anon

I got a whole arsenal of NCO grade leg vs Abn insults, lol.

I also know a lot of very cool airborne sayings too, as the paratroops invariably toss them out around legs to boost their fragile egos.

"I'm the 82nd Airborne, and this as far as the bahstards are going"
~Sgt from the 82nd Abn- upon arriving at a key intersection-alone-during the battle of the bulge and introducing himself to the handful of REMFs that were guarding it.

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Wraith601

I thought that was said to a tank destroyer crew?

sappersgt

My all time favorite is "Don't worry Lieutenant you're safe with me. I've seen every movie John Wayne ever made."

Attributed to WO Vaughn after crashing their Huey miles inside enemy territory.