Land Swap?

**Ironduke** · 12-08-2007, 05:26 AM

Personally I think one of the best strategies to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian territorial disputes is a territory swap. Excluding East Jerusalem, there are some quarter-million Israeli settlers in the West Bank.

From what I've read, the North District of Israel is about 52% Arab-populated.

Map: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...north_dist.png

I'm sure there are areas of the North District that are more exclusively Arab-populated, and that some of these areas are contiguous with the northern West Bank.

A recent MSNBC article states that Ahmed Qureia, the chief Palestinian negotiator, is interested in a territory swap of some form. It is unlikely that the Israelis are going to withdraw from all of their settlements.

Why not withdraw from those settlements in the interior of the West Bank to those contiguous with the eastern Israeli border, keep those settlements, and swap it for Arab-populated territory in the West Bank?

The situation as-is is politically untenable both politically and demographically. Such a move would also see more ethnic homogenization in both Israel and the West Bank. About 45% of Israel's Arabs live in the North District, and other majority Arab populated towns immediately contiguous to the West Bank could be swapped as well.

MSNBC article:

Quote:

Palestinian official hints at land swap for peace
Negotiator: Palestinians ready to yield West Bank land for Israeli territory

ABU DIS, West Bank - The Palestinians are ready to yield parts of the West Bank to Israel if compensated with an equal amount of Israeli territory, the lead Palestinian negotiator told The Associated Press in an interview Wednesday.

Ahmed Qureia, a former prime minister who has dealt with five Israeli prime ministers during 14 years of failed peacemaking, is trying again with No. 6, Ehud Olmert.

And he’s full of optimism, saying the U.S.-hosted Mideast conference in Annapolis, Md., tentatively set for Nov. 26, is a “very, very, very important opportunity.” If it fails, he predicts Israelis and Palestinians will perhaps suffer more than in the blood-soaked years following the unsuccessful Camp David summit in 2000.

Israelis and Palestinians are slowly rebuilding trust, making compromise possible, the 71-year-old Qureia said in his modest office in Abu Dis, a West Bank suburb of Jerusalem that has been sliced in half by Israel’s separation barrier in the West Bank.

Qureia has logged hundreds of hours with Israeli negotiators since 1993, when secret meetings near Oslo, Norway, led to the breakthrough accord of mutual recognition between Israel and the PLO.

Core issues of conflict
Today he heads a four-member team that first met earlier this week with Olmert’s top aides. Ahead of the November conference, the two sides are trying to write a joint declaration of principles on the core issues of the conflict — borders, Jerusalem, settlements and Palestinian refugees.

The disputes have defied solution, but Qureia believes there could be enough common ground to come up with a general sentence or two on how to approach each issue.

For example, the Palestinians want the old Israeli-Palestinian frontier — before Israel captured the West Bank, Gaza and east Jerusalem in the 1967 Mideast War — to be the basis of border talks.

Source: Palestinian official hints at land swap - Israel-Palestinians - MSNBC.com

astralis · 12-08-2007, 14:55 PM

the way the israelis and pallies go at it, you'd think each bit of the west bank was covered with gold and diamonds, with sweet crude underneath and rubies to be picked at every corner....:rollseyes:

it is hard to believe that a hundred years ago, this entire area was a sleepy backwater.

**ZFBoxcar** · 12-09-2007, 00:38 AM

Potential problem is that Arab Israelis probably don't want to give up the benefits of Israeli citizenship (regardless of the discrimination which they might suffer) to become part of an unstable and poor Palestinian state.

Stan187 · 12-09-2007, 02:47 AM

This land swap is actually the platform that Avigdor Lieberman's Israel Beitenu party ran on.

**Ironduke** · 12-10-2007, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZFBoxcar

Potential problem is that Arab Israelis probably don't want to give up the benefits of Israeli citizenship (regardless of the discrimination which they might suffer) to become part of an unstable and poor Palestinian state.

The West Bank is materially much better off than the Gaza Strip, and along with lessening restrictions on the economic life imposed by the Israeli authorities, the wealthier Arabs of Israel's North District could serve to prop up the West Bank economically and form a core from which economic growth can occur.

Kansas Bear · 12-10-2007, 22:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZFBoxcar

Potential problem is that Arab Israelis probably don't want to give up the benefits of Israeli citizenship (regardless of the discrimination which they might suffer) to become part of an unstable and poor Palestinian state.

More true than you think. Look at Lebanon. Occupied by Syria for 30+ yrs, politically unstable thanks to Syrian-Iranian backed terrorists and assassination of Lebanese MPs. Now, imagine a Palestinian state!!

Stan187 · 12-11-2007, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironduke

The West Bank is materially much better off than the Gaza Strip, and along with lessening restrictions on the economic life imposed by the Israeli authorities, the wealthier Arabs of Israel's North District could serve to prop up the West Bank economically and form a core from which economic growth can occur.

Prop up the West Bank economically? Former West Germany is still propping up the East. You think they'll really like that deal? Surely, if such a deal does go down, Israeli Arabs will be forced to go along with the will of West Bank Palestinians and the Israelis. They're in too good of a situation currently to want to shake that status quo. They have higher education, health, and economic levels of development than Arabs in any other part of the Middle East. If you were in their place, you wouldn't wanna stir the pot either.

JohnFlint1985 · 12-11-2007, 19:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironduke

The West Bank is materially much better off than the Gaza Strip, and along with lessening restrictions on the economic life imposed by the Israeli authorities, the wealthier Arabs of Israel's North District could serve to prop up the West Bank economically and form a core from which economic growth can occur.

It will take a hundred years to prop them up financially - if the source of money will be only Israeli Arabs. West bank will need massive amount of money to make it into any viable economic entity. Given the fact that during last 60 years rich Arab states were keeping Palestinians as a vanguard of their hatred to-wards the west and Israel - I am not so sure if this massive help will be forthcoming. Too many in Arab world still want to keep tensions in this region. Who is better then Palestinians?
Also I am sure that there is not going to be aide opening of any kind for traffic between North Galilee and West Bank - it is security problem. One suicide bomber and the gates will be closed. So I would not be so sure on that as well.

**Ironduke** · 12-12-2007, 19:12 PM

I think we all have to agree that the current situation of checkpoints, military restrictions, etc., extremely retards economic progress in the West Bank. The Israelis could better provide for their security by withdrawing to the more populous settlements along the Israeli border. They would free up a lot of military resource that is currently dedicated to protecting almost nothing. If the Palestinians are free to move around within the West Bank and the border settlements are thus even better protected it's a win-win situation.

**ZFBoxcar** · 12-12-2007, 19:18 PM

It is win win for everyone except the Israeli Arabs though. What you said about them serving as a core for economic growth might be true, but I doubt its what they want, and I don't see how Israel can just strip them of their citizenship and remain democratic. Yes, they might be offered compensation, but it is unlikely to be enough for them to want to sacrifice the stability they have.

Stan187 · 12-13-2007, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironduke

I think we all have to agree that the current situation of checkpoints, military restrictions, etc., extremely retards economic progress in the West Bank. The Israelis could better provide for their security by withdrawing to the more populous settlements along the Israeli border. They would free up a lot of military resource that is currently dedicated to protecting almost nothing. If the Palestinians are free to move around within the West Bank and the border settlements are thus even better protected it's a win-win situation.

That's not right. The checkpoints within the West Bank do retard economic growth, but militarily they are quite effective. How many suicide bombings have you heard of in the past few years? Not many. The reason? The redundancy of multiple checkpoints and military restrictions on movement. It is an unfortunate truth. The checkpoints protect Israeli proper much more so than they do the settlers.

Zinja · 12-18-2007, 21:23 PM

I once raised this issue of swaping territories in another thread but at the time it seemed like a far fetched idea, now im glade the politicians are seein sense in this. However, I still cannot fathom a Palastinian state existing in two patches of land over another sovereign state. Lets wait and see.

Silent Hunter · 01-10-2008, 12:58 PM

Other states managed to exist as two territories- look at West Germany.

RamHammer · 01-12-2008, 04:49 AM

This idea won't work. First, the Israelis would never do it. Second, moving the people across would be an utter disaster. Remember what happened when Pakistan was crated, and all the Muslims moved to Pakistan, and vice versa? A million people died. It's simply not a plausible solution.

Stan187 · 01-12-2008, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RamHammer

This idea won't work. First, the Israelis would never do it. Second, moving the people across would be an utter disaster. Remember what happened when Pakistan was crated, and all the Muslims moved to Pakistan, and vice versa? A million people died. It's simply not a plausible solution.

Someone's not doing their research. The land swap ideas currently being fielded involve redrawing borders around population distributions, moving populations to conform to borders.

View Poll Results: Should the Israelis and Palestinians swap territories?
Yes	14	63.64%
No	8	36.36%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

12-08-2007, 14:55 PM	#2 (permalink)
astralis Lei Feng Protege *Foreign Service* Join Date: 08-23-05 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 2,772 Country:	the way the israelis and pallies go at it, you'd think each bit of the west bank was covered with gold and diamonds, with sweet crude underneath and rubies to be picked at every corner....:rollseyes: it is hard to believe that a hundred years ago, this entire area was a sleepy backwater. __________________ Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present. -Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

12-09-2007, 02:47 AM	#4 (permalink)
Stan187 WAB BOUNCER *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-24-06 Posts: 2,152 Country:	This land swap is actually the platform that Avigdor Lieberman's Israel Beitenu party ran on. __________________ In Iran people belive pepsi stands for pay each penny save israel. -urmomma158 The Russian Navy is still a threat, but only to those unlucky enough to be Russian sailors.-highsea

01-12-2008, 04:49 AM	#14 (permalink)
RamHammer Regular Join Date: 10-04-07 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 59 Country:	This idea won't work. First, the Israelis would never do it. Second, moving the people across would be an utter disaster. Remember what happened when Pakistan was crated, and all the Muslims moved to Pakistan, and vice versa? A million people died. It's simply not a plausible solution. __________________ I stand with Israel.

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12-09-2007, 00:38 AM	#3 (permalink)
ZFBoxcar Moderator Join Date: 08-03-03 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 2,107 Country:	Potential problem is that Arab Israelis probably don't want to give up the benefits of Israeli citizenship (regardless of the discrimination which they might suffer) to become part of an unstable and poor Palestinian state.

12-12-2007, 19:12 PM	#9 (permalink)
Ironduke Burgomaster Join Date: 08-02-03 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 6,663 Country:	I think we all have to agree that the current situation of checkpoints, military restrictions, etc., extremely retards economic progress in the West Bank. The Israelis could better provide for their security by withdrawing to the more populous settlements along the Israeli border. They would free up a lot of military resource that is currently dedicated to protecting almost nothing. If the Palestinians are free to move around within the West Bank and the border settlements are thus even better protected it's a win-win situation.

12-12-2007, 19:18 PM	#10 (permalink)
ZFBoxcar Moderator Join Date: 08-03-03 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 2,107 Country:	It is win win for everyone except the Israeli Arabs though. What you said about them serving as a core for economic growth might be true, but I doubt its what they want, and I don't see how Israel can just strip them of their citizenship and remain democratic. Yes, they might be offered compensation, but it is unlikely to be enough for them to want to sacrifice the stability they have.

12-18-2007, 21:23 PM	#12 (permalink)
Zinja Regular Join Date: 06-12-07 Posts: 145	I once raised this issue of swaping territories in another thread but at the time it seemed like a far fetched idea, now im glade the politicians are seein sense in this. However, I still cannot fathom a Palastinian state existing in two patches of land over another sovereign state. Lets wait and see.

01-10-2008, 12:58 PM	#13 (permalink)
Silent Hunter Contributor Join Date: 08-09-07 Location: London, UK Posts: 471 Country:	Other states managed to exist as two territories- look at West Germany.

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