Officer of Engineers

MSgt,

I would remind you that the UN was the excuse that Israel used to get out of the Israeli-Hezbollah War.

__________________
Chimo

bolo121

israel+nukes+palestine+arab countries+lots and lots of oil= super sensitive
poor africans killing other poor africans= ho hum

Stan187

Gotcha, so genocide is no biggie, as long there are no nukes or oil involved.

__________________
In Iran people belive pepsi stands for pay each penny save israel. -urmomma158
The Russian Navy is still a threat, but only to those unlucky enough to be Russian sailors.-highsea

bolo121

Sadly that is true. After all US moved as soon its oil was in danger not once but twice.
However despite a lot of pious hand wringing nobody did anything about Rwanda for example.
The force i mentioned would be meant to stop precisely this kind of thing which in the ordinary case mighty powers would not want to be involved in as it was not in their pragmatic self interest to do so.

Blademaster

Well considering that US stood on the sidelines watching the genocide unfold, it certainly looks that way.

gunnut

Hey, we wanted to call those incidences "genocides." The UN wouldn't. Do you know why? Because the UN charter states that it has to act if there's an ongoing genocide. Don't wait for the US. The holier than thou security council should take a more active role in preventing genocides from happening.

If we take the bull by the horn, we're bullies. If we sit back and wait, no one does anything and it's still our fault. It's the ol' "damned if you do, damned if you don't" deal we always get.

What would have happened if we took out Hussein in GW1? We would be demonized as an imperial power hungry for oil and regional domination. So we had to go back 12 years later to kick his ass once more. Guess what? We were demonized as an imperial power hungry for oil and regional domination.

Why do you think we don't give a flying rats ass about what the world thinks?

__________________
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

bolo121

I was doing a what if so dont want to get into the usual useless corrupt UN bla bla bla thread.
I was mentioning how a differently constructed UN Could have more teeth and fewer resolutions.
I even mentioned that UN as it is today cannot do anything.
So a force controlled by permanent sec council members could be used for things which nowadays nobody does anything about.
As to hungry for oil of course the US is. The only silly thing i find is why US should hide behind various reasons like spreading democracy or removing WMD. Every nation does what is best for its own prosperity. Just say the plain fact that to ensure prosperity US needed oil and so went and got it.

Officer of Engineers

Several things here. The US did refused to call Rwanda a genocide. This was right after the Rangers debacle in Somalia and the US was in no mood to support another disaster.

UN Bureaucrats, more specifically Kofi Annan, were responsible for countermanding the Ground Force Commander, then Major-General Romeo Dallaire, and not allow him to pre-emptively strike against the genocide consipirators. That would not have changed with a totally dedicated UN Force.

There is the SHIRBRIG. It's now a joke. The militaries involved want nothing to do with the UN bureaucrats.

When UNIFIL was being bombed, Koffi Annan was on his weekend getaway (his NORMAL weekend getaway). This while every Prime Minister and President on the planet was busy on the phone with Tel Avi arranging safe passage. Both Canada and India as well as others had special forces on the ground in Lebanon finding Canadian and Indian nationals through this arrangement. From what I saw, Koffi Annan was more p!ssed off at cancelling his getaway than about "his" people getting killed.

None of this would change with a dedicated UN force.

Stan187

What's your point? I'm saying that this is completely deplorable behavior. However, the US is not the multi-national organization that was set up to bring the world peace now was it?

Stan187

Yeah, the US is really hiding behind that democracy thing in Afghanistan. Luckily for the US, they're pumping a lot of oil out of that country.

Blademaster

That doesn't even make sense. US is in Afghanistan just solely because of 9/11. Without 9/11, US wouldn't give a sh!t about Afghanistan.

Stan187

My point was that we did not go into Afghanistan for oil, which was implied as the only thing America is out for. There is democracy there because of 9/11, because unless we set up a stable government, the country was bound to become a haven for terrorists again. I'm sorry if you must be beaten with the point like a sledgehammer, but my point, as well as what I was responding to, was not that complex to understand.

bolo121

No. I said that every nation would do what was best for itself. Afghanistan was done because USA was attacked by people based there.
Oil is high on the list sure but i never implied it was the only thing.

Ironduke

I think it would look somewhat similar to what it does today, but perhaps the Palestinians would be largely pushed out of the West Bank and Gaza lacking UN resolutions?

__________________
The Buck Stops Here

Stan187

LoL, so in essence, it'd look significantly different than it looks today.