Druze

Without a doubt the hardest moment as a soldier was not the tenacity of a battle or the loss of a comrade but the abandoning of the South Lebanese Army (SLA) in 2000 as Israel withdrew from its positions in South Lebanon.

The memories of thousands of South Lebanese citizens trying to get across the border into Israel is something that still haunts me. I remember fights breaking out between Israeli soldiers who served in Lebanon and the border police who were trying to control the border and document everyone coming through.

A few thousand South Lebanese are now proud citizens of Israel and they only received their measely compensation package from the Israeli government last year.

Israel pulled out without properly coordinating and informing the SLA so they collapsed immediately during the pullout.

If there is another war with Hezbollah then Israel will have to retake South Lebanon and clear out everything South of the Litani river. I hope that a new and much stronger South Lebanese Army will be formed.

Officer of Engineers

I say Sabra and Shatila massacre is Israel's darkest hour.

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Chimo

Blademaster

Is that the massacre where IDF fired artillery shells into a Palestinian refugee camp?

RepublicanGuard

667medic

Nope, think the SLA went on a rampage in the refugee camps while the IDF stood and ignored the atrocities. I have seen some photos and they are pretty horrible...

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Seek Save Serve Medic

Druze

No Sabra and Shatilla were caused by Phalangists who were loyal to Bashir Gemayel. Gemayel was the President elect of Lebanon who was assasinated days before the massacre. His men were itching to get revenge for the assasination and letting their forces go into the camp was a recipe for disaster. Israeli troops heard the gunfire clearly coming from the camp but had no orders to go in and engage their allies to stop the shooting. By the time they received orders to enter the camp the shooting had stopped by itself.
The next day 500,000 of Israel's then 3,000,000 took to the streets in protest of the massacre.
The SLA wasn't just Christians and the Christians that were in it weren't fanatics.

ExNavyAmerican

Israel's darkest hour was last summer's war in Lebanon. I'm an ardent Israel supporter, and I was so p!ssed off at Israel, I could hardly contain myself.

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"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever."
- Thomas Jefferson

Guardian

Israel's darkest hours? Last summer? The pullout of South Lebanon? Please people.

How about 1948? A joint Arab invasion of the newly formed country. There was no IDF. The Israeli people formed militias like Haganah to fight the Arabs invading from all 360 degrees. They were facing annihilation and won. Again, in 1973 during the Yom Kippur War the Israelis faced annihilation from a joint Arab invasion. They again won against all odds. Now, Israel faces the day when Iran will have nuclear weapons. Aside from these three events I would add that the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin was the other major low point for Israel. Rabin was so close to peace with the Palestinians. So close in fact that it was a hardline Israeli Jew that killed Rabin for being too liberal.

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The history of the world is but the biography of great men.
-Thomas Carlyle

ExNavyAmerican

Ok. What you just described is what we call their finest hours. Would you characterize these as their low points?

I'm sorry; what are you trying to say?

Guardian

I see. So by dark hour you mean a moment when Israel makes stupid moves and looks like the evil they are branded as. I apologize. I misunderstood the discussion. I agree that the moments I mentioned are their high points. So...low points...ExNavyAmerican...I concur with your Israeli-Hezbollah disgrace. Israel is under the international microscope and they can not afford to make such brash military maneuvers. A few Israeli soldiers were either kidnapped or killed and Israel launches a month-long war. Israel endures clashes with Palestinians weekly, if not daily. Last summer's war was a message to their enemies, but a message that killed hundreds of innocent Lebanese and cost Southern Lebanon their infrastructure and billions of dollars in damage. Definitely a low point for Israel, but my strategic thinking is probably different from IDF officials making these calls. Apparently the invasion was seen as necessary.

Druze

I'm not talking about Last summer's war with Lebanon. Take some time and read the post before you reply. I am talking about the 2000 pullout of Lebanon of Israeli forces from South Lebanon and Israel abandoning their SLA allies.

Officer of Engineers

Lieutenant,

To be fair. The SLA collapse was unexpected. I too had thought they were sufficiently armed and in good enough numbers to maintain control, especially with the IsDF at their backs. They've lost their will and no amount of support was going to get them to stand up.

WhamBam

It seems that the Israelis are at their best when in a no-hope situation. When dominant they become no-hopers like last year in Lebanon.

Is it that it is the sieze mentality that makes them tick!

Guardian

Hey Druze, shut up. I wasn't replying to your post.

ExNavyAmerican

I see. I must say, I was dumbfounded.