Olmert Faces Pressure to Resign - Page 2

S-2 · 05-05-2007, 00:28 AM

"My view of the war was that Olmert was presented with the sort of situation that Israeli PMs regularly face, but felt that he needed to 'make his bones' by looking tough."

I don't know how "regularly" these scenarios may be for Israeli P.M.s. They seem a tad unusual to me.

A kidnapping in Gaza a few weeks before followed by a rocket barrage to cover the infiltration and kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers. Over thirty-three days between 3900-4200 rockets of varying sizes were fired, largely indiscriminately, at Israel. Some 20% were judged as having hit an urbanized area.

As such, I don't believe that our "rookie" P.M., Olmert, was attempting to flex his muscles. Failure to do something/anything would have been sufficient to hang him within the Israeli populace. Sorry, Bigfella, internat'l platitudes and all, but that guy would have been out of business in no time, justifiably under the circumstances. Funny that you don't see this war as a challenge and/or test by Nasrallah.

I'll tell ya, though. I view the responsibility of a government for securing it's land and the safety of its citizens as paramount. Don't you? It's the difference between Israel and Lebanon. I think that your abject objection to the use of force blinds you to the liklihood that Nasrallah intended to rocket Israel until they reacted. He had a lot of rockets (15,000-16,000 in the ol' wikipedia) and the determination to do so.

As for Lebanon, Bigfella, you can consider their democracy "crippled" well before this latest war. Why do you think that the Lebanese army failed to assert it's sovereign authority over the south in the seven years since the Israelis had departed? They couldn't? Laughable until they try and fail. Until then, I'd be inclined to say complicit in the establishment of a POG fortified rocket zone across the south. As such, Siniora is a most dubious partner for peace. His government is hardly worthy of the name, IMHO.

I'm just not certain how to take your comment about the British sailors and marines. They aren't remotely analogous. However, I suppose discretion is the better part of valor-for a spy, but not a sailor or marine of Her Majesty's royal navy!

Ray · 05-10-2007, 03:57 AM

Quote:

JEFF JACOBY
Israel's deadly stupor

By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist | May 9, 2007

IF EHUD OLMERT had been as adroit and resolute in defending his nation from its enemies as he is in defending his grip on power, Hezbollah today would be a disgraced relic, while Olmert would be esteemed from Dan to Beersheba. Instead, the terrorist organization is hailed throughout the Arab world for its attack on Israel last summer, while Olmert -- despite surviving no-confidence motions in the Knesset on Monday -- is so reviled by his countrymen that according to the latest poll, 0 percent of Israelis would vote for him today.
The poll follows the release of the interim report of the Winograd Commission, a blue-ribbon panel appointed last September to investigate Israel's failings in its second Lebanon War. The report is scathing. It documents in damning detail the bungling, the willful blindness, and the almost criminal ill-preparedness that pervaded the highest levels of Israel's government during the war and the years leading up to it.

The commission blasts Olmert for making rash and uninformed decisions, and pronounces him guilty of "a serious failure in exercising judgment, responsibility, and prudence." It is equally critical of the inept defense minister, Amir Peretz, whose incompetence crippled Israel's ability to defend itself from Hezbollah's attacks, and of former military chief of staff Dan Halutz, who never warned his clueless superiors that the armed forces were unprepared for a ground offensive in southern Lebanon.

The immediate trigger for the war was Hezbollah's July 12 incursion across the Lebanon-Israel border, in which three soldiers were killed and two others kidnapped. But Hezbollah had been openly preparing for war for six years, ever since Israel's unilateral retreat from southern Lebanon in May 2000. Making no attempt to disguise its intentions, Hezbollah swept into the territory Israel had abandoned, creating a network of fortified bunkers and launch sites and deploying thousands of missiles and rockets along the border. All the while Israel looked on, doing nothing about the mounting threat.

"Every alarm bell should have been ringing," Jerusalem Post editor David Horovitz writes. "But many of the warning systems had, literally or figuratively, long since been disconnected."

How could Israel have been so complacent? What could have accounted for such lethargy in the face of a deadly menace that was growing more dangerous by the day?

The answer, says the Winograd Commission, is that too many of "the political and military elites in Israel have reached the conclusion that Israel is beyond the era of wars." Unlike their forbears, who understood that the Jewish state would never have peace until its enemies decided to lay down their arms, today's Israeli leadership imagines that it can achieve peace by means of restraint and retreat.

"Since Israel did not intend to initiate a war," the report concludes, senior officials decided that Israel "did not need to be prepared for 'real' war." And that being the case, "there was also no urgent need to update in a systematic and sophisticated way Israel's overall security strategy and to consider how to mobilize . . . all its resources -- political, economic, social, military, spiritual, cultural, and scientific -- to address the totality of the challenges it faces."

Fed up with fighting, aching to live normally, Israelis lulled themselves into a stupor. They shook hands with Yasser Arafat and ran away from Lebanon and expelled the Jews from Gaza. They blamed themselves for their enemies' hatred and turned the other cheek to suicide bombings and Kassam rocket attacks. They tried to be Athens, one Israeli commentator wrote last year. But to survive in the Middle East, even Athens must sometimes act like Sparta.

"We are tired of fighting," Olmert moaned in a 2005 speech. "We are tired of defeating our enemies." But those who grow tired of defeating their enemies generally end up being defeated by them.

As America's beleaguered ally searches for new leadership, one voice worth heeding is that of Hebrew University game theorist and Nobel laureate Robert Aumann.

"We are like a mountain climber who gets caught in a snowstorm," Aumann said at this year's Herzliya Conference in January. "If he falls asleep, he will freeze to death. We are in terminal danger because we are tired. I will allow myself to say a few unpopular, unfashionable words: Our panicked lunging for peace is working against us. It brings us farther away from peace, and endangers our very existence."

With enemies like Hezbollah, weariness is a luxury Israel cannot afford. And lest we forget, Hezbollah is our enemy too.

Jeff Jacoby's e-mail address is jacoby@globe.com.
© Copyright 2007 Globe Newspaper Company.
Israel's deadly stupor - The Boston Globe

Posted without comments!

Ray · 05-10-2007, 04:00 AM

DECADE OF FAILURE By BARBARA OPALL-ROME - Opedcolumnists - New York Post Online Edition

Civic rage also should target the deep-rooted flaws that compel commissions of inquiry every time Israel goes to war.

The Daily Star - Opinion Articles - Arab pluralism requires a free, contentious media

Today's Arab media is rife with paradox. Compared to only a decade ago, today's Arab world enjoys a dizzying variety of television stations, newspapers and Internet sites. The news and political discourse in these media outlets have decisively shattered the ability of states to monopolize information or control public opinion. But while technological trends have fueled the growing power and freedom of the Arab media, Arab states seem determined to fight it every step of the way.

Stan187 · 05-10-2007, 19:31 PM

Very nice articles Brigadier Ray!

Dreadnought · 05-11-2007, 13:13 PM

Arial Sharone he is not. Thats for sure.

Stan187 · 05-11-2007, 15:05 PM

Sharon was not too keen on going back into Lebanon either, his first experience there still stuck with him hardcore. However, you are right in that if he had chosen to go back in, he wouldn't have done it in such a riff-raff manner.

Druze · 05-11-2007, 17:29 PM

I'm with the school of thought that Hezbollah wouldn't have dare do something like this with Sharon in power. Giving someone like him an excuse was not something they would have played around with. Olmert on the other hand they wanted to test. His Defense Minister shown below was also the object for test.

Stan187 · 05-11-2007, 17:58 PM

There are, unfortunately, pictures of Bush doing much the same thing. However, we all remember what happened to Afghanistan when his resolve was put to the test.

Druze · 05-11-2007, 18:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan187

There are, unfortunately, pictures of Bush doing much the same thing. However, we all remember what happened to Afghanistan when his resolve was put to the test.

Ya its not that hard to hand someone a set of capped binos and snap a quick photo I agree. however in Peretz's case a general was pointing to something and Peretz nodded in agreement.

Stan187 · 05-12-2007, 12:48 PM

LOL! I guess you can't expect much more than that, he's the leader of the Histadrut, they didn't teach em military strategy at union meetings.

Druze · 05-14-2007, 14:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan187

LOL! I guess you can't expect much more than that, he's the leader of the Histadrut, they didn't teach em military strategy at union meetings.

Yeah he was a national joke when he was president of the Histadrut, shows always mocked him. The thought of him becoming Labor party leader and then of all positions being chosen to be defense minister was funny until the war.

He is Jimmy Hoffa as Secretary of Defense Minus Hoffa's charisma and minus about 50 IQ points.

Remember David Levy? He used to get laughed at a lot because he was the only leading political figure who didn't speak a lick of English. But Peretz was even more of a joke then David Levy.

Stan187 · 05-14-2007, 20:43 PM

Druze did you ever see the cartoon rap video making fun of Peretz that was around some half a year ago? Hilarious!

Druze · 05-15-2007, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan187

Druze did you ever see the cartoon rap video making fun of Peretz that was around some half a year ago? Hilarious!

No but I'd love to see it if you got a link. Stan do watch Eli Yatzpan? He did a great Peretz impersonation while he was with the Histadrut.

Stan187 · 05-15-2007, 17:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Druze

No but I'd love to see it if you got a link. Stan do watch Eli Yatzpan? He did a great Peretz impersonation while he was with the Histadrut.

No, I've never seen Eli Yatzpan. Here is that little video, its pretty funny, it was done for the Meretz campaign I believe:

YouTube - Meretz rap jingle

05-05-2007, 00:28 AM	#16 (permalink)
S-2 *Military Professional* Join Date: 09-11-06 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 2,105 Country:	Bigfella Reply "My view of the war was that Olmert was presented with the sort of situation that Israeli PMs regularly face, but felt that he needed to 'make his bones' by looking tough." I don't know how "regularly" these scenarios may be for Israeli P.M.s. They seem a tad unusual to me. A kidnapping in Gaza a few weeks before followed by a rocket barrage to cover the infiltration and kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers. Over thirty-three days between 3900-4200 rockets of varying sizes were fired, largely indiscriminately, at Israel. Some 20% were judged as having hit an urbanized area. As such, I don't believe that our "rookie" P.M., Olmert, was attempting to flex his muscles. Failure to do something/anything would have been sufficient to hang him within the Israeli populace. Sorry, Bigfella, internat'l platitudes and all, but that guy would have been out of business in no time, justifiably under the circumstances. Funny that you don't see this war as a challenge and/or test by Nasrallah. I'll tell ya, though. I view the responsibility of a government for securing it's land and the safety of its citizens as paramount. Don't you? It's the difference between Israel and Lebanon. I think that your abject objection to the use of force blinds you to the liklihood that Nasrallah intended to rocket Israel until they reacted. He had a lot of rockets (15,000-16,000 in the ol' wikipedia) and the determination to do so. As for Lebanon, Bigfella, you can consider their democracy "crippled" well before this latest war. Why do you think that the Lebanese army failed to assert it's sovereign authority over the south in the seven years since the Israelis had departed? They couldn't? Laughable until they try and fail. Until then, I'd be inclined to say complicit in the establishment of a POG fortified rocket zone across the south. As such, Siniora is a most dubious partner for peace. His government is hardly worthy of the name, IMHO. I'm just not certain how to take your comment about the British sailors and marines. They aren't remotely analogous. However, I suppose discretion is the better part of valor-for a spy, but not a sailor or marine of Her Majesty's royal navy! __________________ "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski

05-10-2007, 19:31 PM	#19 (permalink)
Stan187 WAB BOUNCER *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-24-06 Posts: 2,321 Country:	Very nice articles Brigadier Ray! __________________ In Iran people belive pepsi stands for pay each penny save israel. -urmomma158 The Russian Navy is still a threat, but only to those unlucky enough to be Russian sailors.-highsea

05-11-2007, 13:13 PM	#20 (permalink)
Dreadnought *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 05-12-05 Posts: 5,310 Country:	Arial Sharone he is not. Thats for sure. __________________ Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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05-10-2007, 04:00 AM	#18 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 26,119 Country:	DECADE OF FAILURE By BARBARA OPALL-ROME - Opedcolumnists - New York Post Online Edition Civic rage also should target the deep-rooted flaws that compel commissions of inquiry every time Israel goes to war. The Daily Star - Opinion Articles - Arab pluralism requires a free, contentious media Today's Arab media is rife with paradox. Compared to only a decade ago, today's Arab world enjoys a dizzying variety of television stations, newspapers and Internet sites. The news and political discourse in these media outlets have decisively shattered the ability of states to monopolize information or control public opinion. But while technological trends have fueled the growing power and freedom of the Arab media, Arab states seem determined to fight it every step of the way.

05-11-2007, 15:05 PM	#21 (permalink)
Stan187 WAB BOUNCER *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-24-06 Posts: 2,321 Country:	Sharon was not too keen on going back into Lebanon either, his first experience there still stuck with him hardcore. However, you are right in that if he had chosen to go back in, he wouldn't have done it in such a riff-raff manner.

05-11-2007, 17:29 PM	#22 (permalink)
Druze Regular Join Date: 04-23-07 Posts: 90	I'm with the school of thought that Hezbollah wouldn't have dare do something like this with Sharon in power. Giving someone like him an excuse was not something they would have played around with. Olmert on the other hand they wanted to test. His Defense Minister shown below was also the object for test.

05-11-2007, 17:58 PM	#23 (permalink)
Stan187 WAB BOUNCER *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-24-06 Posts: 2,321 Country:	There are, unfortunately, pictures of Bush doing much the same thing. However, we all remember what happened to Afghanistan when his resolve was put to the test.

05-12-2007, 12:48 PM	#25 (permalink)
Stan187 WAB BOUNCER *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-24-06 Posts: 2,321 Country:	LOL! I guess you can't expect much more than that, he's the leader of the Histadrut, they didn't teach em military strategy at union meetings.

05-14-2007, 20:43 PM	#27 (permalink)
Stan187 WAB BOUNCER *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-24-06 Posts: 2,321 Country:	Druze did you ever see the cartoon rap video making fun of Peretz that was around some half a year ago? Hilarious!

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