xerxes

yes .... lol .. They actually called the Kurds as mountain turks .... , the website that i gave you has link to the names of all the monarchs, emperors, kings, inlucing the Far East.... it is great site. ...


Rome and Romania, Roman Emperors, Byzantine Emperors, etc. Roman Empire

Indian, Chinese, & Japanese Emperors china/japan/korea

Islam islam

The Mongol Khâns & the Oghullar of Rum mongoles

Media, Persia, Parthia, & Iran persia

Intresting note from the author in regard to death of Shah
"Thus passed the last Emperor in the European, Mediterranean, Middle Eastern world, as perhaps Cyrus the Great had been the first. Of the two traditional empires that were contemporaneous with the last Shâh -- Ethiopia and Japan -- only the office of Japanese Emperor survives."

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If we contrast the rapid progress of this mischievous discovery of gunpowder with the slow and laborious advances of reason, science, and the arts of peace, a philosopher, according to his temper, will laugh or weep at the folly of mankind. - Edward Gibbon

xerxes

oppss .... my apologies ... i spoke too fast

Ray

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Israeli forces launch Nablus raid

Israelis answer to the question of whether Israel exists or not!

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"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA

Law80

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Palestine wasn't an empty land. At THAT time there were half a million people living in Palestine, 90 % of them were Arabs. The vast mejority of Palestine had been Arabic since the seventh century.

Stan187

Not anymore. Hate to open up the curtains and make you face reality.

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In Iran people belive pepsi stands for pay each penny save israel. -urmomma158
The Russian Navy is still a threat, but only to those unlucky enough to be Russian sailors.-highsea

WhamBam

If the fact that they were there since the 7th century entitles them to Palestinian land, why not the possession of the same land by Jews does the same now.

Tronic

lol... arrogance is a bliss...

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Nabha Sparasham Deeptam
-Touch The Sky With Glory

WhamBam

Dear sir,

It is not out of arrogance. My point is that Muslims claim that a land is theirs for eternity if they occupy it once. If the arguement is that occupation by force is justified for them, why not for others.

Muslims still feel that they have a claim over Spain, India and the other territories ruled by Ottomans and they want to revert to a caliph.

zraver

It's not Spain to them but Andalusia, they also claim large parts of Eastern Europe, Rhodes, all of Crete, Scicily etc.

Tronic

And thats why I said that arrogance is a bliss... It wasn't directed at you.

Stan187

you mean al-Andalus? I guess I could see why they want it back. There's a lot more than 72 girls there, and most of em ain't virgins

cape_royds

I'm afraid there's a logic problem in the above passage.

The various countries mentioned above have disputed boundaries, but each side in each dispute has at least defined their boundary claim. I can flip open my atlas and see the dotted lines reading "border claimed by India, border claimed by China," and so forth.

The sides might completely disagree with each other's claims, or they might even hate each other's guts, but the claims themselves are known and can serve as some basis of negotiation or arbitration.

The point made by the article posted by Ray was that Israel has apparently failed to even define its boundary claim. If this is true, then nobody can know what Israel is claiming--where's the limit? And how could you really negotiate it?

Again, if this is true, then it becomes more understandable that almost all Arabs suspect Israel of having expansionist ambitions. And the Palestinian stonewalling over negotiations also becomes more understandable, because it would appear that Israel will not put its ultimate demands on the table.

Looking at Israeli internal politics, I think I can see why Israel might have problems trying to formulate a boundary claim. One problem that is immediately apparent is that about 20% of their parliament is occupied by hardline parties that are in favour of further territorial expansion. Because coalition governments are almost always necessary in Israel, due to its proportional-representation electoral system, quite often the support of these parties are necessary to form a governing bloc. Therefore, if a government attempted to define Israel's final borders, they might lose the support they need to keep office in the first place.

Then it becomes easier to understand why the only Israeli leaders who have managed to make territorial concessions and survive politically have been men of unimpeachable hardline credentials, such as Menachem Begin and Ariel Sharon. And these men have done so only toward the end of their political careers.

Aranthus

There are three problems with your argument. First, Israel has de facto set forth its claim by building the security barrier around it. Second, even if the border is not completely defined it doesn't matter, because what Israel is asking for is not recognition of a boundary, but rather of the Jewish people's right to exist under any circumstance. Third, when the UN proposed its Partition Plan in November, 1947, the boundaries were all defined, there were to have been two states which could have recognized each other, and there were no refugees. What was the Palestinian excuse then for not recognizing Israel's right to exist? Unfortunately, the article is just a litany of excuses, when the real reason for not recognizing Israel is that the Palestinians (and the Arab/Muslim world in general) simply don't want a Jewish State at all.

Stan187

What about Rabin? Remember, that whole, you know, Oslo thing.

cape_royds

Yitzhak Rabin was a general, and later defense minister. He only became more "dovish" later in his career, as the First Intifada wore on.

In Israeli politics, an aspiring leader must first establish his credentials as a fighter. This is perfectly understandable given that country's perennial regional isolation, but one part of this dynamic is that Israeli leaders possess the clout to do politically difficult things (such as making any concession) only late in their careers. In turn, when combined with the constitutional problem of perennial coalition parliaments, Israel has a tough time pursuing any coherent, sustained policy towards the Palestinians.

It's the "only Nixon could go to China" sort of thing, institutionalized over the long term.