troung

France authorizes troops to fire at IAF jets over Lebanon

French soldiers in Lebanon who feel threatened by aggressive Israeli overflights are permitted to shoot at IAF fighter jets, a high-ranking French military officer told The Jerusalem Post.
Wednesday, several days after meeting with an IDF general in Paris to discuss what he said was a "blatant violation of the cease-fire."


Last weekend, Maj.-Gen. Ido Nehushtan, head of the IDF Planning Directorate, traveled to Paris and met with military officials to explain why the IAF flies over Lebanon despite the UN-brokered cease-fire.
Nehushtan, new to his post and previously deputy commander of the air force, told his French counterparts that Israel was conducting the flights to collect intelligence on Hizbullah positions in southern Lebanon.
According to the French officer, Nehushtan apologized for an incident on October 31 when an IAF fighter carried out a mock bombing run over a French UNIFIL position in southern Lebanon, almost prompting troops to fire anti-aircraft missiles.
"There was a reality on the ground and it was important for us to reaffirm what we had seen and explain clearly what are the orders of the French soldiers to protect themselves," the French officer said.
The French told Nehushtan they would view further aggressive flyovers as a violation of UN Security Council Resolution 1701.
"No assurances were made to us that they [the IAF] would stop [the flights]," the French officer said. "The orders that the [French] soldiers have is that their weapons are for self-defense and if a commander will feel threatened, as it was about to happen on the 31st of October, he would have the right to use force."
Milos Strugar, spokesman for UNIFIL, supported the French position, saying that according to the UN resolution, UNIFIL had the right to use force in self-defense, even against Israeli aircraft.
"UNIFIL has the right to take all necessary action to protect UN personnel in self-defense," he said.
France's furor at the overflights was not divorced from French domestic political considerations, government officials in Jerusalem said Wednesday.
France is scheduled to hold the first round of presidential elections in April, and one of those reportedly considering tossing her hat into the ring is Defense Minister Michele Alliot-Marie.
According to these officials, taking a tough stance toward Israel on the issue - a position that grabs headlines in France - helps her raise her profile.
The officials said it didn't hurt Alliot-Marie politically to be seen as someone who needed to be "held back" from responding forcefully to the overflights.
France has said on a few occasions since the end of the war that it came close to firing at Israeli jets over Lebanon. In late October, Alliot-Marie told parliament that Israeli F-15's had dived close to French positions in southern Lebanon.
"Our troops barely avoided a catastrophe," Alliot-Marie told parliament. "Our troops find themselves in a position where they have to fire in legitimate self-defense."
Alliot-Marie is a close ally of French President Jacques Chirac, and if Chirac does not decide to run for a third term, he may back Alliot-Marie to thwart his rival, Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy.
The Foreign Ministry, meanwhile, has not - contrary to some press reports - asked the IDF to stop the overflights, diplomatic officials said. Rather, they have passed on to the IDF European concerns that the flights be performed more discreetly, and not in a way that could be interpreted by either the Lebanese or the Europeans as a provocation. Nehushtan declined to be interviewed for this report and the IDF Spokesman's Office released a statement confirming that the IDF general had visited Paris

__________________
To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

Parihaka

So would the Israelis fire back if fired upon?

gunnut

I hope they do. Let's see how tough the French is.

__________________
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

Officer of Engineers

The Israelis were the ones who used the UN as the fig leaf for their retreat. They can't afford the embarrassement of getting rid of their own fig leaf.

__________________
Chimo

-{SpoonmaN}-

Do you have any idea at all what French history is like? Do you know what their approach to fighting the war in Algeria was like?
I love this revisionism, just because they don't hop in line behind the USA all the time, just because they back out of one war, they must be weak. It's not that the USA failed to convince them that they had enough to gain from fighting in Iraq, no no, its because they were, and apparently always have been, too afraid to fight a war.

__________________
"I have this to say to the people of Australia: Kick me, I'm different."

troung

Looking at the Ivory Coast a couple of years back when 9 French Marines were killed (and 23 wounded) by a FACI Su-25 which had flown overhead a couple of times (and a UAV flew over right before that) and then bombed French soldiers and looking at Israel's record of bombing/shelling people/ships by accident the French are doing what they have to so they can make sure they don't get bombed by accident.

Europe is Israel's largest trading partner...

crooks

Well said.

It's greatly saddening the ridicule the French take these days.

-{SpoonmaN}-

Oh no, by all means ridicule, but get it right, France has been an imperialistic, authoritarian power that has repeatedly committed all manner of savage war crimes to further their aims. The only difference is they didn't feel like doing it in Iraq because they didn't see anything to gain from it.
Especially since Iraq owed them HEAPS of money that they'll never get back now.

-{SpoonmaN}-

Yeah, it's not happening unless the Iraelis completely lose their marbles or at least one of their pilots does.
And France responded quickly and harshly enough to that air attack, their commandos destroyed the enitre FACI fleet on the ground within hours.

crooks

Hmm...Interesting.

True of course, but I still don't think they deserve the mockery they take.

Yes they've commited atrocities, but every major power has, at the end of the day.

PubFather

It dates from WWII - when they didnt really cover themselves in glory. Since then, they have been very arrogant and predominately concerned with their own national self-interest, to the exclusion of the niceties of international law on occaison... That there sense of national self-importance outstrips their geo-political significance to an extent that makes Britain look positively humble, simply adds to the current ill-feeling. Their opposition to Iraq has severely irritated our American cousins.

__________________
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit - Scottish Motto

"They that approve a private opinion, call it opinion; but they that dislike it, heresy; and yet heresy signifies no more than private opinion” Thomas Hobbes - Leviathan

Stan187

It would not be good for either party to shoot at each other. But I do hope that the Frenchmen will have enough sense not to shoot. Those who shoot would probably be destroyed, which would then lead to a confrontation (politically) that would see the French leave and EU-Israel relations would be very shaky. I can imagine anti-Semitic attacks in France increasing if something like this happened.

Seriously, the French should focus on making sure Hizballah doesn't rearm. Cuz that is the easiest way to get the Israelis to reduce the number of overflights, they are just doing the job that the UN should be doing, but lack the political will to do.

Parihaka

French state sponsored terrorism anyone? Bomb a ship, one killed, New Zealands exports to Europe blockaded because we had the temerity to arrest a couple of the murderers (thanks GB for your support on that one, not).
Lies, world court corruption (we've taken so long to examine the case that if the criminals who perpetrated this crime HAD been tried they'd be free by now so there's no point is there. Truly, look it up)
Britain, refuses to condemn the murder, or call it terrorism.
America, refuses to call it terrorism or in any way condemn it.
France is France, and just like the rest of the great powers, will do whatever it likes to whomever it likes whenever it likes. It's only 'crime' of late is in not providing tacit support to the US in Iraq, a breaking of the old boys club if ever there was one. So even though I have the greatest reason of anyone here to spit on the French, there's no point, because I'd have to spit on every other 'great nation' as well. New Zealanders came to realise that day that we have no allies, merely friends of convenience. It's very liberating
Oh, and the leader of the bombing expedition used the money he earned to put his baby sister through college, looks like she may be the next President of France. Won't that be fun.

Stan187

It seems that for Israel, besides the United States there are no allies that are anything more than that. France and Israel have really never been on too great of terms since De Gaulle left power, but giving your troops standing orders to potentially destabilize even the shaky relationship that they have now is a retarded move on the part of the French. Its hypocritical to act tough when you say you're gonna enforce all the terms of the ceasefire, and yet so clearly be more concerned with only what one side does.

I'm not saying that Israel is doing something completely legal in terms of international agreements, but then again an agreement has to be abided by BOTH parties involved. They're just working with what they're getting. How tough Israel is dispositioned against Hizballah is inversely proportional to how tough UNIFIL is on Hizballah.

Thats why I see this ceasefire going nowhere but the same place it came from.

Confed999

Anyone who has been paying attention knows it is because Saddam was their ally. Russia is no different. They picked a side, thought we were bluffing, we weren't...

__________________
No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry