The Godfather

Who are the palestines?

What and were is Palestine?


These and other questions will be addressed more fully as you go through this text. However, there is a preliminary historical fact that must be established now. There has never been a civilization or a nation referred to as "Palestine" and the very notion of a "Palestinian Arab nation" having ancient attachments to the Holy Land going back to time immemorial is one of the biggest hoaxes ever perpetrated upon the world! There is not, nor has there ever been, a distinct "Palestinian" culture or language. Further, there has never been a Palestinian state governed BY Arab Palestinians in history, nor was there ever a serious Arab-Palestinian national movement until 1964... three years BEFORE the Arabs of "Palestine" lost the West Bank [Judea and Samaria] and Gaza as a result of the 1967 Six-Day War (which the Arabs started). Even the so-called leader of the "Palestinian" people, Yasser Arafat, is EGYPTIAN! In short, the so-called Arab "Palestinians" are a manufactured people...a people with no history and no authenticity... whose sole purpose for existence is to destroy the Jewish State!
Israel first became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam! Seven hundred and twenty-six years later in 586 B.C.E. these first ancient Jews in the Land of Israel [Judea] were overrun and Israel's First Jewish Temple (on Jerusalem's Old City Temple Mount) was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, king of ancient Babylon. Many of the Jews were killed or expelled; however many were allowed to remain. These Jews along with their progeny and other Jews who would resettle over the next 500 years, rebuilt the Nation of Israel and also a Second Temple in Jerusalem upon the Temple Mount. Thus the claim that Jews suddenly appeared fifty years ago right after the Holocaust and drove out the Arabs is preposterous!

Then in 70 C.E. (nearly 2000 years ago), it was the Roman Empire's turn to march through ancient Israel and destroy the SECOND Jewish Temple, slaughtering or driving out much of its Jewish population. Many Jews left on their own because conditions for life were made unbearable in many respects... yet thousands upon thousands stayed and rebelled on for centuries in order to once again rebuild a Jewish Nation in this Holy Land.
Over 3250 years, various Peoples, Religions and Empires marched through Jerusalem, Israel's ancient capital. The region was successively ruled by the Hebrews [Jews], Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Maccabeans, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Egyptians, the Crusaders, Mamelukes, the Turks (who indifferently governed the backward, neglected territory from the 16th century until the British drove them out during World War I) and then once again by the Jews in 1948. None bothered, nor were they in the least bit inclined, to build a Nation of their own... EXCEPT the Jews!
It must be noted that in 636 C.E., when the Arabs marauders came to the land and uprooted even more of its Jews, they did not form any Arab nation there... and certainly not a "Palestinian" nation. They were simply "Arabs" who, as did others before them, moved into a geo-political area called "Palestine!" And remember this one fact... it was not the Jews who "usurped" (a favorite word from the Arab propagandists) the land from the Arabs. If anything, it was the Arabs in 636 C.E. who overran and stole it from the Jews!

The Godfather

GREED, PRIDE, ENVY!


The Arabs and/or Muslims of today control 22 nations... 99½ percent of the ENTIRE Middle East land mass while Israel occupies only a 1/2 of 1 percent speck on this same map. But that's still too much land for the Arabs to spare. They want it all. How often have we heard their familiar cry, "We will fight to our last drop of blood for for every last grain of sand!" And that is ultimately what all the fighting is about today. And no matter how many land concessions the Israelis might make for "peace," it will never be enough! Any peace treaty between Israel and the Arab world are ultimately meaningless. The most recent 1993 "Oslo Peace Accord" has brought nothing but homicidal bombers into Israel. Even the Israeli-Egyptian and Israeli-Jordanian peace treaties are holding on by a single thread and, if you were to read their government-controlled newspapers, you'd think they were still at war with Israel!

The Godfather

Israel a very tiny country

Israel would fit INSIDE nearly every U.S. state! In fact, tiny Israel would fit into the United States (Alaska & Hawaii included) 768 times! Israel could fit into Florida SEVEN times! The United States is a country surrounded by two vast oceans and two friendly countries, Canada and Mexico. Israel is not so lucky. she is surrounded by 22 Arab countries and some very nasty Arab Islamic terrorist organizations.

The jews have had a EXTREMELY hard time during world war 2. 6 million jews were executed or shot by the nazis. It is their country and they deserve the country. Isn't it then fair to give it back to them. Anyway Israel (as I said peviously) would fit INSIDE U.S.A. (Alaska & Hawaii included) 768 times. IT isn't even a very big country we are talking about. So why make war?

Stan187

I agree with a lot of the things that you're saying. But please, use some spaces, cut down on so much rhetoric, and turn off the bold font. People will not be likely to respond if it looks like you are ranting.

Yirmeyahu

Moreover, it's bad practice to copy and paste material written elsewhere and pawn it off as your own. That's called plagiarism.

As for the content, it's nonsense. The Palestinian people exist, and they live under a brutal and illegal foreign occupation.

It's that central fact the above seems intent on turning your eyes away from. I would like to trust that nobody could be that willfully ignorant, but I've learned not to presume too much.

Bluesman

No, they live under an illegitimate and corrupt Authority.

__________________
"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell

Yirmeyahu

They lived under a corrupt Authority under Yassir Arafat, for certain. I don't doubt that corruption remains, but the situation has vastly improved under Abbas.

The PA is not "illegitimat". It has long been regarded by the Palestinian people as their sole representative.

Furthermore, neither the level of corruption within the PA nor its "legitimacy" preclude Israel from being an occupying power. If the PA did not exist, Israel would still be an occupying power.

The occupation is brutal, and it is illegal.

Stan187

Right, the PA has been their sole representative. I'd think Qassams from the Islamic Jihad would contest that role as sole representative. I'd think suicide bombings from Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade would also contest that role as sole representative.

"Palestinians" have been pawns of other Islamic states for over 60 years, and they're still too shortsighted to realize it. Being naive is bad enough, but for 60 years. That is the definition of BRUTAL.

Yirmeyahu

Yes, as I said, the Palestinian people have repeatedly reaffirmed that they regard the PA as their sole legitimate representative.

As for "brutal", it's definition is "typical of beasts", "befitting a brute", "grossly ruthless or unfeeling", which perfectly describes the illegal Israeli occupation.

Stan187

Oh befitting a brute, ruthless and unfeeling. Hmm... like strap on explosives and blow yourself up in a crows of innocent people brutal... Or maybe build a rocket and launch it into a town of Jews indiscriminately type ruthless...

As the Gaza pullout has shown, an Israeli presence is not a prerequisite that is necesarry for terrorists to get inspired and commit such acts.

Yirmeyahu

Yes, "brutal" absolutely describes the act of strapping on an explosive and blowing oneself up in a crowd of innocent people. That's a sore understatement. I would also agree that it's "brutal" to launch a rocket indiscriminately into populated civilian areas.

I agree with you 100%.

On the Gaza "pullout", however, I can't agree with your interpretation of events. The "Gaza pullout", as you call it, was really a "West Bank annexation" move.

You can pretend Palestininan terrorism has nothing to do with the brutal and illegal Israeli occupation, but I'd advise against so grievously deceiving yourself.

Bluesman

Because as we all know from history, there were no acts of terror committed against Israel and Jews all over the world by Arabs and Muslims BEFORE 1967.

Yep, that bad ole occupation...the font of Arab/Muslim bestial behavior.

Your precious Palestinians are the most comprehensively ruined people on Earth. That has a helluva lot more to do with the 'kindness' of the UN and their Muslim brethren than it does with anything the Israelis are responsible for.

Yirmeyahu

You say this as though something I had said was predicated upon the assumption that no acts of terrorism had been committed against Israel prior to 1967. How you got that impression, I haven't the slightest clue. Nothing I said was predicated upon any such assumption.

Hence, I'll reiterate. The Israeli occupation is brutal, and it is illegal. While acts of terrorism are unjustifiable, criminal and immoral, they do have a cause, and in this case, people commit acts of terrorism out of hopelessness in response to grave injustices and oppression.

astralis

yirmeyahu,

that does not explain the whole picture. while some people commit acts of terrorism out of hopelessness, other people commit acts of terrorism in sacrifice of some higher goal- no hopelessness needed (japanese kamikazes, osama bin ladin, and quite a few palestinian terrorists come to mind).

the problem with a good deal of the palestinians is that while their grievances against a brutal occupation (something that even israel has admitted) is legitimate, their response to it is not. by this i do not just mean terrorism. they do not want to live side-by-side with the israelis, they seek nothing less than the destruction of israel.

as a result, israel, as any other state would, is forced to raise the palestinians' level of threat, and act accordingly (read: even more harshly). if the only TRUE GOAL of the palestinians were to free themselves from the occupation and form a palestinian state, rest assured that they would have had one far, far earlier, and in all probability a state larger than the one that is on the tables today, if only they had practiced massive and principled non-violent methods under the supervision of decent leaders.

__________________
Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present.

-Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Yirmeyahu

astralis,

Of course, it's a complex problem. My statement was a generalization.

You are one hundred percent correct that while grievances may be legitimate, responding with acts of terrorism is not.

You made a sweeping generalization, saying that Palestinians "seek nothing less than the destruction of Israel". What Palestinians seek is to be left alone to exercise the right to self-determination on their own land. While your generalization may hold true for some, most would love to live side by side with Israel in peace.

Israel isn't "forced" to do much of anything. Your logic in arguing that the Palestinians do not have a state, and therefore being free from the occupation cannot be their "only true goal" is fallacious. It's quite a bit like trying to say, "well, you're still hungry, so you couldn't possibly want to eat". It's nonsense.

I agree with you one hundred percent that non-violent methods would be more productive (violence is not merely immoral, it's not pragmatic or strategically wise). However, just as there is no justification for Palestinian terrorism, neither is there any justification for Israeli terrorism, or for the illegal occupation.