ChrisF202

Hamas threated to attack the US (and Israel as always) after the Israelis blew up Yassin, today they also called Bush an "enemy of Islam". Basically they declared war on us in a way, we should send in some F-16's and Delta Force guys.

Trooth

Most analysts are pointing out that they have made the same statements many times before.

Confed999

But, isn't this what you're saying is wrong? That they need education, etc.?
They kill Americans. They kill indiscriminately in fact. Their primary targets are school busses, public transport and night clubs.
What could cloud your vision? One side's primary targets are terrorists and terrorist leaders, the other side's targets are civilians, for some groups the younger the better. Just like Spain, how many of the victims of the terrorists supported their participation in Iraq? The terrorists still targeted them on purpose. Seems pretty black to me, no clouds in the sky.

__________________
No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

Ray

Praxus,

I am not in favour of the Hamas because they are being irrational. However, I am also alarmed at your irrationality to prove a point. Where in the Dickens has Hamas attacked the US?

Note, if there is irrationality in an argument, it defeats the case.

My country has been ravaged by Islamist idiots, but that doesn't mean I lose rationale thinking and act like an idiot myself!

We ahve suffered more at the hands of these fundamentalists than you can ever imagine. We have WTCs daily, but we have not lost our moorings and our brains!

Let's get the debate on to rationale thinking and not on emotions. If I got to your emotional quotient, then I should be there killing all Muslims anywhere I see. But, I think that would be the stupidest thing to do.

__________________


"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA

Confed999

Hamas has killed Americans, and they threaten to kill more. That's an attack.

Trooth

Well education may be one answer, but my response was to the accusation that because they reject western ideals that must be converted. I think we would both agree there is a difference between forcably converting people (Victorians tried missionaries and murder, we are seemingly going for the war on terror).

This is your interpretation of primary targets (and one i generally agrewe with) however any collateral damage type argument always has these sentiments in the middle of them. I am currently struggling to see any benefit in either side's actions when it comes to resolving the situation, therefore i am lumping them together in the "failed murderous strategies" pile.

I understand, and i can see that argument. By a rough calculation i would say 180 people who were killed would have been opposed to the war in Iraq. Michael Moore made a similar argument about 9/11. However, for the Spaniards they see the flipside, they see Aznar's self fulfilling prophecy. The real question is would they have been attacked if Aznar had not supported Bush and Blair? We will of course never know. I suspect not, because Spain wouldn't ordinarily gain prominence for Islamic terrorism ahead of Israel, US (post 9/11) and France (long historical problems).

Very poetic. Have you read 1984 ?

ZFBoxcar

The point of the fence is not to stop them from wanting to take the land, its to stop them from succeeding.

Ray

Confed,

Hamas has killed Americans? That's news.

It doesn't mean I approve of them, but still I sure would like to know if they did and if they did then there is ever reasons for the US to be hostile.

Al Qeada attack without provocation. The whole world stood by the US. Incorrect action would always invite the wrath of all sane individuals.

I think killing of that paralysed wheel chair based individual is not just his being killed. It is abigger political game. One is an honourable withdrawal from Gaza by Israel and the other is to turn off the heat about Sharon's felony!

That bloke killed was made larger than life by israel to counterbalance the other nut, Arafat.

Also note, Palestine is not only about Islam. There are many Christians who are Palestines.

Confed999

Yes, and? Do you think because I can see things differently than you, that I want to control you? What would have given you that idea?

Ray

Confed,

Have you forgotten the saying Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words cannot harm me?

The fundamentalists of Pakistan say that the US is to be attacked and finished off from the face of the Earth. Does it mean you attack Pakistan? Musharraf is helping you to fight the Taliban. So, there are people with you even in a sea of anti US chaps. Let's not target all for the sake of some loonies crapping around.

There are enopugh enemises. Lets not add to the number.

Read Dale Carnagie 'How to Win People and make friends' or some thing like that.

Trooth

It was more your only see black clouds bit and i was for some reason struck by the image of a mans face being stamped on again and again.

I wasn't saying that you wanted to control me.

However 1984 also contains the interesting notion, that a country must always be at war, because that way the people accept being controlled. Something that is certainly relevant in the US and UK at the moment.

And of course the parallels between the war on terror and the chapter were those who were once our allies are now paraded through what was Trafalgar Square chained as prisoners.

Confed999

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world...niversity.html They don't care who they kill. If they were attacking government and military I might be a little on their side, but they aren't.
I believe there are innocents galore there but it's time to pick a side: Palestinian state living with Israel or keep fighting.

Trooth

It also seperates farmers from farms. So, as i said, it doesn't respect property rights.

Confed999

You know I don't condone targeting all. Kill all those looneyz and their followers though.
Evil is evil, If they threaten me then I want them dealt with ASAP.
Read it, unfortunately I'm too much of a smart-ass to put it into practice.

Ray

Confed,

Hamas killed Americans?