Slaughter on the beach

Asim Aquil · 06-11-2006, 00:24 AM

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/sla...815360539.html

Quote:

Families picnicking on a beach have been blown apart by Israeli artillery in Gaza, forcing the Middle East to the brink of renewed conflict.

Hamas called off its 16-month truce with Israel after 10 Palestinian civilians, including three children, were killed on Friday.

Body parts littered the sand next to the Mediterranean in Gaza and a canopy, erected as protection against the sun, was splattered with blood.

Five of the dead were believed to be from the same family. The three slain children were playing in the sand while their sister, who had been swimming, survived.

Up to 30 more people were injured in the attack, which Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas called "a bloody massacre". The Israeli army said it would investigate the shelling.

Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh, who is also the Hamas leader and a political opponent of Mr Abbas, called the deaths a "war crime" and urged Jordan and Egypt, both mediators in past Israeli-Palestinian talks, to intervene.

Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri confirmed the militant group would renew its attacks.

"I believe that amid the continued bloodshed of our people and the horrific images of massacres, there is no place for silence," Mr Abu Zuhri said.

The Israeli army initially said its ships had fired shells at militants who launched rockets against the Jewish state after Israel killed a top militant who had served as a senior security chief appointed by the Hamas-led Government.

Israeli Military Southern Command chief Yoav Galant said the army suspended its artillery shellings and was investigating the killings on the beach. He said he regretted any civilian deaths.

"We are exploring two possibilities - a wrongly aimed artillery shell or an independent incident we were not involved in," General Galant told reporters.

He did not say who else might have been behind the killings.

The rising death toll stoked tensions as Mr Haniyeh made a last-minute appeal to Mr Abbas to abandon a proposed referendum on statehood that would implicitly recognise Israel. The Hamas militant group is sworn to destroying the Jewish state.

An Israeli air strike on a car killed three Palestinian civilians in Gaza, minutes after Popular Resistance Committees gunmen fired rockets into Israel. The rocket attack was in response to the killing overnight of Jamal Abu Samhadana, a PRC militant group leader.

The army said the dead were involved in rocket attacks.

Mr Haniyeh called for Mr Abbas to back down for the sake of Palestinian unity after the killing of Abu Samhadana.

Mr Abbas is expected to issue a presidential decree tomorrow that will call for holding a referendum on the statehood proposal by July 31, because Hamas has refused to back it.

Just the wrong thing to have happened at relative peacetime. I saw this video on abc news, this kid, she's screaming "baba, baba" (Father, father) on the beach trying to find her father. She suddenly falls to the ground seeing his dead body. I'm not sure but I believe 6 members of her family died.

Confed999 · 06-11-2006, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

Just the wrong thing to have happened at relative peacetime.

You mean the rockets from Palestine, or the retaliatory shelling? Palestine should just formally declare war, and get it over with...

Bluesman · 06-11-2006, 01:13 AM

Wow, a film crew all set and ready at that exact spot, to capture the heart-rending scene for the entire world to see what brutes the IDF are.

Suspect...VERY suspect.

leib10 · 06-11-2006, 01:22 AM

Seems rather convenient, doesn't it?

Confed999 · 06-11-2006, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluesman

Wow, a film crew all set and ready at that exact spot, to capture the heart-rending scene for the entire world to see what brutes the IDF are.

Suspect...VERY suspect.

It would be good if it were false. Mostly because it would mean the ships hit their targets...

leib10 · 06-11-2006, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Confed999

You mean the rockets from Palestine, or the retaliatory shelling? Palestine should just formally declare war, and get it over with...

They lack the strength to wage open war against Israel, so they resort to these little nit-picky attacks to satisfy their needs for war.

Asim Aquil · 06-11-2006, 06:03 AM

Both AND the retaliation to that from Hamas which I read in the papers... And the retaliation to those tomorrow.

Quote:

They lack the strength to wage open war against Israel, so they resort to these little nit-picky attacks to satisfy their needs for war.

Neither has Israel, but it still killed this Jamal dude, before the rocket attacks.

Tronic · 06-11-2006, 12:26 PM

Israel can chop up Hamas whenever they want... but that will just provoke more monkeys with Ak's to carry out suicide attacks... and the difference between the Israeli's and Palestinians is simply that Palestinians don't differentiate between Civillians and Combatants, they only differentiate between Muslims and non-Muslims...

ArmchairGeneral · 06-11-2006, 15:21 PM

Quote:

Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh, who is also the Hamas leader and a political opponent of Mr Abbas, called the deaths a "war crime" and urged Jordan and Egypt, both mediators in past Israeli-Palestinian talks, to intervene.

Looks like the Palestinian Prime Minister thinks that they're already at war. In which case, why is this a war crime? Collateral damage does happen. And if it's a war, the Palestinian methods seem far closer to "war crimes" than the Israeli methods.

Liquid · 06-11-2006, 16:14 PM

Israelis are doing themselves a gross disservice, and playing into the hands of the Palestinians, by presuming that an Israeli shell caused the deaths of seven Palestinian civilians Friday in Gaza, Prime Minster Ehud Olmert's Foreign media advisor Ra'anan Gissin said Sunday.

"We are repeating the same mistakes of the past in taking responsibility when there are other possibilities about who is responsible," Gissin said.

He said that Friday's tragedy on the Gaza beach may indeed be similar to the shooting of Mohammed al-Dura in 2000, the "Jenin Massacre" in 2002, and the killing of 21 people at the Jabaliya refugee camp last September. While the Palestinians originally pinned the blame for all these incidents on Israel, it has since turned out that al-Dura may have been killed by Palestinians, that there was no "Jenin massacre," and that the deaths in Jabaliya were caused when Hamas activists "mishandled" explosives at a mass rally.

Gissin said that Israel should immediately have raised doubts after Friday's incident about the Palestinian version of events that placed the blame squarely on Israel.

"We jumped to conclusions before the evidence, and we immediately assumed that it was probably an Israeli shell," Gissin said. "But we don't know that for a fact. The Palestinians moved in and destroyed all the evidence. People should be asking themselves, 'why?' "

Just as Israel is conducting an investigation, Gissin said that the international community should also be demanding that the Palestinians conduct an investigation. But rather than doing that, he said, the Palestinians are removing evidence from the scene.

"We look at the area as a battle zone," Gissin said, "while the Palestinians view it as a crime scene, and are interested in making the evidence look like Israel carried out an atrocity," he said.

Gissin said that the evidence "didn't add up" in Jenin to equal a massacre because there were not enough bodies, and in Jabaliya there were too many witnesses to what happened to buy the Hamas line that the explosion in 2005 was the result of missiles fired by an IDF helicopter.

"But now we have a classic case where there is no real evidence, and all we have is a picture of a crying girl on the beach," Gissin said of Friday's incident in Gaza. "Nobody knows how the people there were killed. If it was an Israeli shell, why didn't the Palestinians invite the press to see the remnants of the shell, why have they been so quick to remove the evidence?"

Gissin bemoaned a situation where he said that instead of waiting for the investigation, the Israeli press jumped to the conclusion that it was an errant Israeli shell and reflexively began calling for an end to artillery fire on Gaza.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev, meanwhile, said that considering the circumstances, Israel weathered this particular storm in the foreign media "fairly well."

Regev said that none of the serious international news outlets blamed Israel for intentionally targeting the civilians, and that most mentioned that Israel expressed regret and set up an investigation of the incident.

Regev said that the Foreign Ministry and IDF coordinated Israel's reaction after the incident and that there were two main messages:

*That Israel regretted the incident and expressed sorrow for it; that it deems the loss of innocent civilian life unacceptable; but that it was not taking responsibility because an investigation into exactly what happened was continuing.

*That the violence in Gaza is a result of Palestinian extremist groups continuing to launch rockets on Israel even though Israel pulled out of Gaza 10 months ago and has neither a single settler nor soldier there.

Regev said that this message did not emphasize the possibility that the Palestinians may have been responsible for the blast, because no one at this point knows exactly what happened. Israel, he said, did stress that it was investigating the incident, and that it was premature to draw conclusions.

Gissin: Don't blame Israel first (JPost.com)
-------------------------------------------------
Always easier to blame the Jews first, I suppose.

ArmChair, it would be war crimes because *if* Israel purposely slaughted those people it would be unlawful due to international law.

In general it isn't all Palestinian's just really Hamas that have used suicide bombers and such. Though most of the people support them, since they got elected into the government. Hamas is doing a crappy job as well. Can't pay wages or keep a decent order around. Instead of taking what little money they have left and helping the people, they rather instead send that money to make more rockets to fire at Israel. I really do doubt that with the shortages in money, they will be able to stay in power for a while.

Confed999 · 06-11-2006, 17:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leibstandarte10

They lack the strength to wage open war against Israel

Exactly, and that's why I said "get it over with".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

Both

When someone shoots rockets into your country, you probably should shoot back if you can.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

Neither has Israel

Israel could, and has, move through Palestine at will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

killed this Jamal dude

Jamal Abu Samhadana? The major terrorist that the Palestine government wouldn't do anything about? That guy was fair game, just like OBL is, and the Zarq was...

Confed999 · 06-11-2006, 17:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tronic

more monkeys

Don't say stuff like that...

SRB · 06-11-2006, 19:01 PM

Brutal.
If they kill someone from terrorist I will say OK, but let wait for Israel explanation about this.
P.S. look who many Palest. are killed in Isreal blood feud. It looks like 5 for 1 or even more, to me it looks like Nazi in my country.
But again I dont defend terrorists any where in world.
Isreal must be more caution. They show that when they plan attack they can do it without colateral damage.

Confed999 · 06-11-2006, 20:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRB

look who many Palest. are killed in Isreal blood feud.

What? You do realize that if the Palestinians quit attacking them Israel will be more than happy to worry about themselves? Need proof? Look at them and the rest of their neighbors.

ArmchairGeneral · 06-11-2006, 21:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Confed999

ArmChair, it would be war crimes because *if* Israel purposely slaughted those people it would be unlawful due to international law.

In general it isn't all Palestinian's just really Hamas that have used suicide bombers and such. Though most of the people support them, since they got elected into the government. Hamas is doing a crappy job as well. Can't pay wages or keep a decent order around. Instead of taking what little money they have left and helping the people, they rather instead send that money to make more rockets to fire at Israel. I really do doubt that with the shortages in money, they will be able to stay in power for a while.

Well duh.

Of course if they were purposely targeting civilians it would be a war crime. However, I didn't see the Palestinian Prime Minister saying that, he just called 'em war crimes, period. And, if he's gonna call them war crimes because they target civilians, he's got a lot of explaining to do about his organization. But I think we would agree on that.

About the suicide bombers: I thought Islamic Jihad did some too? I don't know about Hezbollah, I guess they may be more into rocket attacks.

06-11-2006, 01:13 AM	#3 (permalink)
Bluesman WAB Bartender *Defense Professional* *Military Professional* Join Date: 11-24-04 Location: Vacaville, CA. Posts: 7,387 Country:	Wow, a film crew all set and ready at that exact spot, to capture the heart-rending scene for the entire world to see what brutes the IDF are. Suspect...VERY suspect. __________________ "The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory." - George Orwell

06-11-2006, 01:22 AM	#4 (permalink)
leib10 HKHolic *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 02-17-05 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 3,240 Country:	Seems rather convenient, doesn't it? __________________ "The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." G-Man

06-11-2006, 12:26 PM	#8 (permalink)
Tronic Navajo Code Talker *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 12-27-04 Location: Patiala, India Posts: 5,288 Country:	Israel can chop up Hamas whenever they want... but that will just provoke more monkeys with Ak's to carry out suicide attacks... and the difference between the Israeli's and Palestinians is simply that Palestinians don't differentiate between Civillians and Combatants, they only differentiate between Muslims and non-Muslims... __________________ *Nabha Sparasham Deeptam* *-Touch The Sky With Glory*

06-11-2006, 16:14 PM	#10 (permalink)
Liquid New Member Join Date: 06-11-06 Location: USA Posts: 18	Gissin: Don't blame Israel first Israelis are doing themselves a gross disservice, and playing into the hands of the Palestinians, by presuming that an Israeli shell caused the deaths of seven Palestinian civilians Friday in Gaza, Prime Minster Ehud Olmert's Foreign media advisor Ra'anan Gissin said Sunday. "We are repeating the same mistakes of the past in taking responsibility when there are other possibilities about who is responsible," Gissin said. He said that Friday's tragedy on the Gaza beach may indeed be similar to the shooting of Mohammed al-Dura in 2000, the "Jenin Massacre" in 2002, and the killing of 21 people at the Jabaliya refugee camp last September. While the Palestinians originally pinned the blame for all these incidents on Israel, it has since turned out that al-Dura may have been killed by Palestinians, that there was no "Jenin massacre," and that the deaths in Jabaliya were caused when Hamas activists "mishandled" explosives at a mass rally. Gissin said that Israel should immediately have raised doubts after Friday's incident about the Palestinian version of events that placed the blame squarely on Israel. "We jumped to conclusions before the evidence, and we immediately assumed that it was probably an Israeli shell," Gissin said. "But we don't know that for a fact. The Palestinians moved in and destroyed all the evidence. People should be asking themselves, 'why?' " Just as Israel is conducting an investigation, Gissin said that the international community should also be demanding that the Palestinians conduct an investigation. But rather than doing that, he said, the Palestinians are removing evidence from the scene. "We look at the area as a battle zone," Gissin said, "while the Palestinians view it as a crime scene, and are interested in making the evidence look like Israel carried out an atrocity," he said. Gissin said that the evidence "didn't add up" in Jenin to equal a massacre because there were not enough bodies, and in Jabaliya there were too many witnesses to what happened to buy the Hamas line that the explosion in 2005 was the result of missiles fired by an IDF helicopter. "But now we have a classic case where there is no real evidence, and all we have is a picture of a crying girl on the beach," Gissin said of Friday's incident in Gaza. "Nobody knows how the people there were killed. If it was an Israeli shell, why didn't the Palestinians invite the press to see the remnants of the shell, why have they been so quick to remove the evidence?" Gissin bemoaned a situation where he said that instead of waiting for the investigation, the Israeli press jumped to the conclusion that it was an errant Israeli shell and reflexively began calling for an end to artillery fire on Gaza. Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev, meanwhile, said that considering the circumstances, Israel weathered this particular storm in the foreign media "fairly well." Regev said that none of the serious international news outlets blamed Israel for intentionally targeting the civilians, and that most mentioned that Israel expressed regret and set up an investigation of the incident. Regev said that the Foreign Ministry and IDF coordinated Israel's reaction after the incident and that there were two main messages: That Israel regretted the incident and expressed sorrow for it; that it deems the loss of innocent civilian life unacceptable; but that it was not taking responsibility because an investigation into exactly what happened was continuing. That the violence in Gaza is a result of Palestinian extremist groups continuing to launch rockets on Israel even though Israel pulled out of Gaza 10 months ago and has neither a single settler nor soldier there. Regev said that this message did not emphasize the possibility that the Palestinians may have been responsible for the blast, because no one at this point knows exactly what happened. Israel, he said, did stress that it was investigating the incident, and that it was premature to draw conclusions. Gissin: Don't blame Israel first (JPost.com) ------------------------------------------------- Always easier to blame the Jews first, I suppose. ArmChair, it would be war crimes because if Israel purposely slaughted those people it would be unlawful due to international law. In general it isn't all Palestinian's just really Hamas that have used suicide bombers and such. Though most of the people support them, since they got elected into the government. Hamas is doing a crappy job as well. Can't pay wages or keep a decent order around. Instead of taking what little money they have left and helping the people, they rather instead send that money to make more rockets to fire at Israel. I really do doubt that with the shortages in money, they will be able to stay in power for a while. __________________ Sometimes I think the whole world is after me, but I know that's not true... Some of the smaller countries are neutral.

06-11-2006, 19:01 PM	#13 (permalink)
SRB Contributor Join Date: 05-19-06 Location: Belgrade Posts: 402 Country:	Brutal. If they kill someone from terrorist I will say OK, but let wait for Israel explanation about this. P.S. look who many Palest. are killed in Isreal blood feud. It looks like 5 for 1 or even more, to me it looks like Nazi in my country. But again I dont defend terrorists any where in world. Isreal must be more caution. They show that when they plan attack they can do it without colateral damage. __________________ USSR EXPERIMENTAL SPITFIRE

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