sparten

As said before it was the formation of Israel which le to the souring of Arab-Jewish relations, otherwise as your link points out, most Iraqi jews considered themselves Arabs.

Wonder if their is any difference between Arabic jews and jews proper toaday, there certainly was in Muhammads time.

__________________
"Any relations in a social order will endure if there is infused into them some of that spirit of human sympathy, which qualifies life for immortality." ~ George William Russell

Parihaka

Actually he's a really interesting guy to talk to. Without going into too much detail, he served in the IDF and worked for a while in their diplomatic protection squad.
He's proud of his Jewishness and also proud of his Arabic descent, so he was and is torn over what is happening there, and very happy to be out of it and living in New Zealand.
He shares with me a distaste for the mixing of politics and religion.

Oh, and he would consider that there is no difference between Arabic Jews and Jews 'proper'

brad in newyork

No, the state of israel did not creat fuel for the fire the state of israel is a must have, if there was not a state of israel nothing can stop another haulocaust and 6 million jews dying from unworthy hatred. israel is not only a must have for the jews but a must have for the world of justice isreal is the third most powerful country in the world it is one of the biggest supporters of democracy and has introduced litrally tens of thousands of new products to the world, weather it be for military purposes or for domestic perposes.
and it so happens that israel is now allies with jordan and very good friends, and egypt they are in a state peace with.

brad in newyork

the formation of israel was not the cause of the souring of the jews and the arabs this had gone on for 4000 years with abrahams inheritance

sparten

As he should be.
What I meant by my statement about differences was a historical question, the Jews of Medina in Muhammads time seemed to worship the Prophet Ezra as the son of God, just wondering if this was common amongst Arabic jes, or was an aberration exclusive to that time and that place.

Parihaka

Way outside of my field of expertise I'm afraid

Shek

Why does the creation of Israel prevent another Holocaust? That's crap logic. Also, what are these tens of thousands of new products? There's been a lot of military innovations thanks to US subsidation, but what are the domestic products? There's no doubt that Israel has used the land much more productively than it had before, and I support the fact that there is an Israel; however, there's no need to engage in such fruitless rhetoric.

__________________
"So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

ZFBoxcar

The first assumption is that prior to any new Holocaust, Jews would be able to escape to Israel. The second assumption is that any nation planning on wiping out all the Jews does not have the ability to harm Israel. The first assumption is probably correct, the second one might not be.

While I agree that he is certainly overstating the point, and that Israel is certainly not the third strongest country in the world and is also not a "must have" for the world, Israel has been a pioneer in agricultural and water use technology, nano/computer technology, pharmaceuticals, electronics, software, and is the 14th largest nation in terms of how many patents it's citizens have produced (while being the 97th largest nation in terms of population).

platinum786

Can i ask who took these things into account when Israel was created?
Also if they did, would they still defend them today?
Also What if Israel was the aggressor?

TopHatter

It's all a grand Zionist ZOG conspiracy.
By using the Internet, you have already paid a secret tax to the Jews.

__________________
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.
~John Quincy Adams

platinum786

aaaarrrrggghhhh........lol

ZFBoxcar

I'm not sure what you mean. The Zionist movement certainly took this into account, and I imagine that the UN members that voted in favour of partition did as well.

Well the Zionist movement is now the Israeli government, and I imagine that they would try.

How can Israel commit genocide against Jews?

I gather that you were interpreting my previous post to mean that Israel was supposed to go around the world stopping genocides against everyone. Unfortunatly Israel doesn't have the power or even universal recognition. They are limited to being a haven, mainly for Jews, but not exclusively. Refugees from Darfur have arrived in Israel and have been adopted by Kibbutzim.

As for Israel committing genocide against non-Jews, I don't think it will ever happen, but I suppose it would lose its right and reason to exist. The struggle with the Arabs (both local and regional) was war, not genocide.

platinum786

oh right, thanks u answered my question, i was wondering who it was that took all this into account etc...i couldn't figure it out from the previous mosts....mainly because i ahdn't read them all thoroughly...lol

sparten

Boxcar,
The ball is in Israels court. It will have to accept that it is a part of the middle east, and integrate itself, within the middle east. Frankly the Arabs (and they are historically traders) will accept Israel only if they see it as a viable trading partner. That will lead to far greater acceptance of Israel than any "land for peace".

And the Arabs have god knows few virtues today, and but patience is one of them, and they have calculated that Israel cannot last long in the present economic status quo, needing US aid and Free Trade concessions (not to mention Indo-Pak rivalry) to survive. Looking at it dispassionatly, such a state cannot survive more than a couple of generations.

Ray

Survival of Israel as an entity does not have to be US assisted or engined by any wars in the neighbourhood or elsewhere.

The Israeli industry is self sustaining and Israel is a leader in many fields and is eagerly sought out for assistance and trade.

Israel will survive with the munificence of its Arab neighbours.

Wars are no genocide.

__________________


"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA