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Thread: Iran Air War: U.S. Plans For Possibility, But Goal Remains Unclear

  1. #241
    Senior Contributor Stitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    I'm not sure why you said this because it seems like to the opposite to me

    You're working on the buyers to reduce their imports.

    This is working on the supply side. Imagine if Iran could not produce enough oil to sell. The buyers would be forced to go elsewhere.

    That is assuming the theory is we get closer to a turning point with Iran the less they are able to sell.
    Heard a good report about this on NPR this morning; apparently, Iran's oil output is decreasing by 50,000 bbl per day due to sanctions on the sale of oil-producing and refining hardware. Sooner or later, they won't have much oil to sell anymore.

    Sanctions' Squeeze On Iran Tightens : NPR

    "Yeah. See, we plan ahead, that way we don't do anything right now. Earl explained it to me." - Tremors, 1990

  2. #242
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    This should be mildly heartening to the Iranians, or is it? How will Iran take this? There was a purpose in revealing this classified exercise.

    U.S. War Game Sees Perils of Israeli Strike Against Iran
    Matt Dunham/Associated Press

    WASHINGTON — A classified war simulation held this month to assess the repercussions of an Israeli attack on Iran forecasts that the strike would lead to a wider regional war, which could draw in the United States and leave hundreds of Americans dead, according to American officials.
    At War

    The officials said the so-called war game was not designed as a rehearsal for American military action — and they emphasized that the exercise’s results were not the only possible outcome of a real-world conflict.

    But the game has raised fears among top American planners that it may be impossible to preclude American involvement in any escalating confrontation with Iran, the officials said. In the debate among policy makers over the consequences of any Israeli attack, that reaction may give stronger voice to those in the White House, Pentagon and intelligence community who have warned that a strike could prove perilous for the United States.

    The results of the war game were particularly troubling to Gen. James N. Mattis, who commands all American forces in the Middle East, Persian Gulf and Southwest Asia, according to officials who either participated in the Central Command exercise or who were briefed on the results and spoke on condition of anonymity because of its classified nature. When the exercise had concluded earlier this month, according to the officials, General Mattis told aides that an Israeli first strike would be likely to have dire consequences across the region and for United States forces there.

    The two-week war game, called Internal Look, played out a narrative in which the United States found it was pulled into the conflict after Iranian missiles struck a Navy warship in the Persian Gulf, killing about 200 Americans, according to officials with knowledge of the exercise. The United States then retaliated by carrying out its own strikes on Iranian nuclear facilities.

    The initial Israeli attack was assessed to have set back the Iranian nuclear program by roughly a year, and the subsequent American strikes did not slow the Iranian nuclear program by more than an additional two years. However, other Pentagon planners have said that America’s arsenal of long-range bombers, refueling aircraft and precision missiles could do far more damage to the Iranian nuclear program — if President Obama were to decide on a full-scale retaliation.

    The exercise was designed specifically to test internal military communications and coordination among battle staffs in the Pentagon, Tampa, Fla., where the headquarters of the Central Command is located, and in the Persian Gulf in the aftermath of an Israeli strike. But the exercise was written to assess a pressing, potential, real-world situation.

    In the end, the war game reinforced to military officials the unpredictable and uncontrollable nature of a strike by Israel, and a counterstrike by Iran, the officials said.

    American and Israeli intelligence services broadly agree on the progress Iran has made to enrich uranium. But they disagree on how much time there would be to prevent Iran from building a weapon if leaders in Tehran decided to go ahead with one.

    With the Israelis saying publicly that the window to prevent Iran from building a nuclear bomb is closing, American officials see an Israeli attack on Iran within the next year as a possibility. They have said privately that they believe that Israel would probably give the United States little or no warning should Israeli officials make the decision to strike Iranian nuclear sites.

    Officials said that, under the chain of events in the war game, Iran believed that Israel and the United States were partners in any strike against Iranian nuclear sites and therefore considered American military forces in the Persian Gulf as complicit in the attack. Iranian jets chased Israeli warplanes after the attack, and Iranians launched missiles at an American warship in the Persian Gulf, viewed as an act of war that allowed an American retaliation.

    Internal Look has long been one of Central Command’s most significant planning exercises, and is carried out about twice a year to assess how the headquarters, its staff and command posts in the region would respond to various real-world situations.

    Over the years, it has been used to prepare for various wars in the Middle East. According to the defense Web site GlobalSecurity.org, military planners during the cold war used Internal Look to prepare for a move by the Soviet Union to seize Iranian oil fields. The American war plan at the time called for the Pentagon to march nearly six Army divisions north from the Persian Gulf to the Zagros Mountains of Iran to blunt a Soviet attack.

    In December 2002, Gen. Tommy R. Franks, who was the top officer at Central Command, used Internal Look to test the readiness of his units for the coming invasion of Iraq.

    Many experts have predicted that Iran would try to carefully manage the escalation after an Israeli first strike in order to avoid giving the United States a rationale for attacking with its far superior forces. Thus, it might use proxies to set off car bombs in world capitals or funnel high explosives to insurgents in Afghanistan to attack American and NATO troops.
    At War

    While using surrogates might, in the end, not be enough to hide Iran’s instigation of these attacks, the government in Tehran could at least publicly deny all responsibility.

    Some military specialists in the United States and in Israel who have assessed the potential ramifications of an Israeli attack believe that the last thing Iran would want is a full-scale war on its territory. Thus, they argue that Iran would not directly strike American military targets, whether warships in the Persian Gulf or bases in the region.

    Their analysis, however, also includes the broad caveat that it is impossible to know the internal thinking of the senior Iranian leadership, and is informed by the awareness that even the most detailed war games cannot predict how nations and their leaders will react in the heat of conflict.

    Yet these specialists continue their work, saying that any insight on how the Iranians will react to an attack will help determine whether the Israelis carry out a strike — and what the American position will be if they do.

    Israeli intelligence estimates, backed by academic studies, have cast doubt on the widespread assumption that a military strike on Iranian nuclear facilities would set off a catastrophic set of events like a regional conflagration, widespread acts of terrorism and sky-high oil prices.

    “A war is no picnic,” Defense Minister Ehud Barak told Israel Radio in November. But if Israel feels itself forced into action, the retaliation would be bearable, he said. “There will not be 100,000 dead or 10,000 dead or 1,000 dead. The state of Israel will not be destroyed.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/20/wo...agewanted=2&hp
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

  3. #243
    Patron commander's Avatar
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    Interesting develpoment


    Iran threatens to retaliate to any attack by US, Israel

    TEHRAN: Tehran will retaliate against any attack by Israeli or American forces "on the same level" , Iran's top leader said on Tuesday in a defiant address just moments after US president Barack Obama appealed directly to the Iranian people with a message of solidarity.

    The contrasting approaches highlighted the broad range of political posturing and tactics as the standoff deepens over Iran's nuclear programme.

    Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, speaking on state TV to mark the Iranian new year, repeated his claims that the country does not seek atomic weapons , but said all their conventional firepower was ready to respond to any attack.

    "We do not have atomic weapons and we will not build one. But against an attack by enemies - to defend ourselves either against the US or the Zionist regime - we will attack them on the same level that they attack us," he said.

    Despite the hard-edged tone for most of the speech, there were hints of overtures toward America before a possible resumption of nuclear talks between Iran and world powers. He urged the US to have a "respectful attitude" toward Iran - suggesting it could bring dividends.

    Earlier this month, Khamenei gave a rare nod of approval to US after Obama said he favored diplomacy to resolve the nuclear dispute.

    Obama has urged for more time to allow sanctions to cut deeper into Iran's economy . Israeli officials have said there is no decision yet on whether to launch a military strike on Iran's nuclear facilities, but analysts in both countries have become increasingly nervous about the risks of touching off a region-wide war.
    Source: Iran threatens to retaliate to any attack by US, Israel - The Times of India

  4. #244
    Contributor RoccoR's Avatar
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    commander, et al,

    I don't think this is so interesting. In fact, it is pretty consistant.

    Quote Originally Posted by commander View Post
    (COMMENT)

    It was always assumed that Iran would retaliate against both the US and Israel if either launched an attack. It is pretty much understood that Israel has a firm political hold on the US, and is seen as an extension of the US in the Middle East. It is also pretty much understood that, under Chapter VII, Article 51, there is an "inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations."

    Iran has consistently said that it is using nuclear energy for peaceful purposes (ie - not weapons development). And our own intelligence services have said that they have no information that suggests Iran has decided to develop nuclear weapons.

    (CONSEQUENCES)

    I don't think the US, the UNSC or the Region understands all the most probable outcomes an unprovoked attack might spawn.

    Iran, if attacked by Israel --- not a party to the NPT, and holding to a policy of Nuclear Ambiguity (presumed to be a Nuclear Power), and not subject to UN Sanctions --- would be perceived as the aggressor. Under the UN Charter, an attack by Israel would create a dilemma for the UN:

    Quote Originally Posted by CHAPERT VII, Article 39
    The Security Council shall determine the existence of any threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression and shall make recommendations, or decide what measures shall be taken in accordance with Articles 41 and 42, to maintain or restore international peace and security.

    Such an attack, absent such evidence warranting a UNSC Resolution for military action, would place the UN in the ackward position of choice:

    • Either uphold the Treaty, condemn Israel, and defend Iran; --- or,

    • Demonstrate that the UN Charter is a Concept of no consequence.


    By even suggesting there will be a preemptive strike, absent evidence warranting military action, Iran might opt to "withdraw" from the NPT under the provisions of Article X; citing the Treaty and Compliance as the source of conflict. With the withdrawal:

    The UN and in particular the US/Israel --- have lost all claim that Iran is suspected of Treaty Violations; something that the UN IAEA has not yet been able to confirm. If Iran is no longer a party to the NPT, then it can no longer be legally bound by any prohibitions - and thus the treaty can no longer be used as a reason for military actions or sanctions.

    The NPT has a number of purposes and intentions; paramount among these are:

    • Creating a political-military environment that reduces international tension and promotes trust between the parties to the agreement;

    • To reduce (and ultimately eliminate) the manufacture of nuclear weapons;

    • AND: "the establishment and maintenance of international peace and security are to be promoted with the least diversion for armaments of the world’s human and economic resources,"


    If Iran is forced to withdraw from the NPT, the Treaty itself has demonstrated its inability, as a tool, to promote these intentions. If, by attempting to use military action to enforce provisions of the treaty, then the treaty itself has had the opposite effect to its intended purpose. Thus proving the Treaty concept itself as flawed.

    Remember, the adherence to the Treaty is NOT mandatory. Israel is a Middle East (nuclear) power in an otherwise Nuclear Free Region. Yet, against the stated purpose and intent of the treaty, it is no subject to sanctions; protected by the US. And in doing so, the US has demonstrated to the Arab/Persian World that it is not an "honest broker" in the maintenance of non-proliferation; and selectively enforces the provisions of the treaty.

    There may be a number of reasons that war and sanctions should be encouraged by the US - directed at Iran. We should make them clear - and state the case. But, the NPT, much like the WMD issue with Iraq, is not a good reason. If the provisions of the NPT are applicable to one, they must be applicable to all. And if Israel is allowed to be "Nuclear Ambiguous, NonNPT party;" then so should Iran (if it wants). And if war comes, history will not look kindly upon the US.

    If the US is to be a benevolent, fair and honest broker of peace and leader of the free world, THEN it must find a way to turn this situation around - and bring back Iran to community of nations in a peaceful and prosperous manner.

    Most Respectfully,
    R
    Blademaster and commander like this.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoccoR View Post
    The UN and in particular the US/Israel --- have lost all claim that Iran is suspected of Treaty Violations; something that the UN IAEA has not yet been able to confirm. If Iran is no longer a party to the NPT, then it can no longer be legally bound by any prohibitions - and thus the treaty can no longer be used as a reason for military actions or sanctions.
    Exactly , pretty much what we have been debating in another thread about US trying to impose sanctions on India. The issue here is it doesn't matter whether Iran is a party of NPT or not. The intentions of Israel/USA is to stop Iranian Nuclear program so they WILL attack Iran.

    Quote Originally Posted by RoccoR View Post
    If Iran is forced to withdraw from the NPT, the Treaty itself has demonstrated its inability, as a tool, to promote these intentions. If, by attempting to use military action to enforce provisions of the treaty, then the treaty itself has had the opposite effect to its intended purpose. Thus proving the Treaty concept itself as flawed.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by RoccoR View Post
    Remember, the adherence to the Treaty is NOT mandatory. Israel is a Middle East (nuclear) power in an otherwise Nuclear Free Region. Yet, against the stated purpose and intent of the treaty, it is no subject to sanctions; protected by the US. And in doing so, the US has demonstrated to the Arab/Persian World that it is not an "honest broker" in the maintenance of non-proliferation; and selectively enforces the provisions of the treaty.
    Couldn't agree more.

    Quote Originally Posted by RoccoR View Post
    There may be a number of reasons that war and sanctions should be encouraged by the US - directed at Iran. We should make them clear - and state the case. But, the NPT, much like the WMD issue with Iraq, is not a good reason. If the provisions of the NPT are applicable to one, they must be applicable to all. And if Israel is allowed to be "Nuclear Ambiguous, NonNPT party;" then so should Iran (if it wants). And if war comes, history will not look kindly upon the US.

    If the US is to be a benevolent, fair and honest broker of peace and leader of the free world, THEN it must find a way to turn this situation around - and bring back Iran to community of nations in a peaceful and prosperous manner.

    Most Respectfully,
    R
    Sir you have my respect. When all the other US posters pretty much were trying to save Israel's and USA's a** you spoke the truth.

  6. #246
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    Again I bring up these two examples - Sino-Soviet and Soviet-Israeli. Both times, the Soviets threatened nuclear war citing the NPT as the legal basis for their actions. They were stared down by opposing American nuclear forces. At no time did ANYONE stated the Soviets were wrong in their interruptation, NOT EVEN BY THE AMERICANS. And frankly, not even by the Chinese nor the Israelis.
    Chimo

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Again I bring up these two examples - Sino-Soviet and Soviet-Israeli. Both times, the Soviets threatened nuclear war citing the NPT as the legal basis for their actions. They were stared down by opposing American nuclear forces. At no time did ANYONE stated the Soviets were wrong in their interruptation, NOT EVEN BY THE AMERICANS. And frankly, not even by the Chinese nor the Israelis.
    And in the face of successful opposition, NPT was never held to be a viable option for force. It would be different if Soviet were allowed to carry out their threats based on NPT. Give us a successful scenario where a threat was successfully carried out on the basis of NPT.

  8. #248
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    Hitesh, think about it. Would we even care if the Soviets carried out their campaigns?
    Chimo

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Hitesh, think about it. Would we even care if the Soviets carried out their campaigns?
    We did obviously care and that is why US successfully opposed SU in using NPT as a valid reason to go to war despite that US never disagreed over NPT or such but the end result remains the same. SU tried to attack using the NPT and failed. So no historical precedent there.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    We did obviously care and that is why US successfully opposed SU in using NPT as a valid reason to go to war despite that US never disagreed over NPT or such but the end result remains the same. SU tried to attack using the NPT and failed. So no historical precedent there.
    You're missing the point here, Hitesh. If the USSR did carry out their campaigns, we would be living under radioactive skies right now and frankly, I don't even know if you would be born and I know I would be digging out bodies ... if I was not one of them.

    But be that as it may, the US has never opposed the Soviets on the basis of the NPT. They opposed them that they would not take too kindly an invasion of an attack of on a Sovereign Power opposed to the USSR. Beijing was no Prague.
    Chimo

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    You're missing the point here, Hitesh. If the USSR did carry out their campaigns, we would be living under radioactive skies right now and frankly, I don't even know if you would be born and I know I would be digging out bodies ... if I was not one of them.

    But be that as it may, the US has never opposed the Soviets on the basis of the NPT. They opposed them that they would not take too kindly an invasion of an attack of on a Sovereign Power opposed to the USSR. Beijing was no Prague.
    It is clear by now that we got our positions and convictions on this issue and we are not going to change each other's mind. Wanna take a break from this?

  12. #252
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    I have the Nixon Memoirs in which he stated exactly what he told Leonid Brezhnev and the NPT was not part of it.
    Chimo

  13. #253
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    The Bomb and the Bomber

    If Iran goes nuclear it will change our world.

    An Iranian atom bomb will force Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Egypt to acquire their own atom bombs. Thus a multipolar nuclear arena will be established in the most volatile region on earth. Sooner or later, this unprecedented development will produce a nuclear event. The world we know will cease to be the world we know after Tehran, Riyadh, Cairo or Tel Aviv become the 21st century’s Hiroshima.

    An Iranian bomb will bring about universal nuclear proliferation. Humanity’s greatest achievement since 1945 was controlling nuclear armament by limiting the number of members in the exclusive nuclear club. This unfair arrangement created a world order that guaranteed relative world peace.

    But if Iran goes nuclear and the Middle East goes nuclear so will the Third World. If the ayatollahs are allowed to have Robert Oppenheimer’s deadly toy, every emerging power in Asia and Africa will be entitled to have it. The 60-year-old world order that guaranteed world peace will collapse.

    An Iranian atom bomb will give radical Islam overwhelming influence. Once nuclear, the rising Shiite power will dominate Iraq, the Gulf and international oil prices. It will spread terror, provoke conventional wars and destabilize moderate Arab nations.

    As Iranian nuclear warheads will jeopardize Israel, they will imperil Europe. For the first time, hundreds of millions of citizens of free societies will live under the shadow of the nuclear might of religious fanatics. The union of ultimate fundamentalism with the ultimate weapon will imbue the world we live in with a hellish undertone.

    If Israel strikes Iran it will change our world.

    An Israeli attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities will create the most dramatic international crisis of the post-cold war era. As the Jewish state and the Shiite republic exchange blows, the Middle East will be rattled. Tensions will rise between pro-Iranian Russia, China and India and anti-Iranian United States, Britain, France and Germany. As oil prices soar higher (to $250-$300 a barrel), financial markets will panic and the world economy will experience a real setback.

    An Israeli attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities will unleash a regional war whose consequences might be catastrophic. Iran will strike back with all it has: Hezbollah, Hamas, Shahab missiles, strategic surprises. Iran will block the Strait of Hormuz and call upon all Muslims to come to its rescue. Although most Arab regimes will be secretly supportive of the Israeli operation, the Arab masses might rise.

    Throughout the world, millions of Muslims will see the attack on Iran as an attack on their own dignity and pride. The religious struggle provoked by the Israeli action might go on for decades.

    An Israeli attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities might drag the United States into war. Israel has limited air power. Israeli cities are threatened by 200,000 rockets. If an Iranian-led counteroffensive sets Tel Aviv ablaze and kills thousands of Israeli civilians, the U.S. will feel obliged to intervene. Rather than initiate a well-planned and internationally backed American surgical strike on Iran’s nuclear project, America will become captive of an Israeli-Iranian war spiraling out of control. After getting out of the Iraqi mud and while trying to pull out of the Afghan desert, America will be bogged down by a highly charged and highly priced conflict with the Islamic Republic.

    The pivotal international issue the West has faced in the first 12 years of the 21st century has been Iran. The cardinal strategic challenge of the last decade has been how to prevent two threats: (an Iranian) bomb and (an Israeli) bombing. Yet the West failed to rise to the challenge in time.

    For years it made every possible mistake. First President George W. Bush focused on Iraq rather than Iran. Then President Barack Obama wasted precious time on idle diplomacy. Britain and France tried their best but the European Union dragged its feet before taking decisive action. The economic sanctions that should have been activated 10 years ago were activated only last year.

    The crippling sanctions that should have been imposed back in 2005 are yet to be imposed. The assertive-diplomacy track was not seriously pursued when it could have been effective. The creative-political-solution track was never really explored. Western leadership did not endorse a comprehensive, resourceful, consistent and tough third-way-strategy that could prevent Bomb and Bombing.

    Now we are witnessing a shift. Terrified by the prospect of an imminent Israeli strike, decision makers and opinion leaders in the United States and Europe have Iran on their mind. Last week Tehran was cut off from the SWIFT bank-transfer network. By July, all E.U. nations will stop purchasing Iranian oil.

    Yet all this is too little too late. Within nine months the Iranians will be immune to an Israeli air strike. By Christmas, Israel will lose the military capability to stop the Shiite bomb. As it will be existentially threatened, the Jewish State will feel obliged to take action.

    So the summer of 2012 now seems to be the summer of last opportunity. If in the coming months crippling sanctions are not imposed on Iran and Israel doesn’t get substantial guarantees that will ensure its future, anything might happen. All hell might break loose.

    If the West doesn’t get its act together at this very last moment, it might soon face the dire consequences of its own impotence.

    Ari Shavit, a senior correspondent for Haaretz and a member of its editorial board, is completing a book about Israel.
    Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/22/op...he-bomber.html

    I need clarifications for the bold bit .. Anybody ??

  14. #254
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    We did obviously care and that is why US successfully opposed SU in using NPT as a valid reason to go to war despite that US never disagreed over NPT or such but the end result remains the same. SU tried to attack using the NPT and failed. So no historical precedent there.
    No, that the US did not disagree over NPT as a valid reason implies its STILL valid to use NPT as a basis to go to war.

    The end result is, at the time, the US opposed war through other means.

    If the question comes up will Russia opt to do the same ? only if Russia opposes a war with Iran.

    over the years have seen lots of people disagree with using NPT as a basis to go to war but have yet to see a successful counter, until that happens it remains valid to me.

  15. #255
    Contributor RoccoR's Avatar
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    Commander, et al,

    This seems to refer to the Israeli judgment that the targets might reach a "zone of immunity."

    Quote Originally Posted by commander View Post
    Source: Within nine months the Iranians will be immune to an Israeli air strike. By Christmas, Israel will lose the military capability to stop the Shiite bomb.

    I need clarifications for the bold bit .. Anybody ??
    (COMMENT)

    A "zone of immunity" can come about in a number of different ways (I have listed just a few):

    • It can be an Article 8 Prohibition (Part II Romes Statues - ICC)

    • I can be a facility that is shield by innocents beyond collateral damage acceptability, or by a hostage dome.

    • I can be co-located, unacceptably close to a facility, the destruction of which may cause damage beyond acceptable limits.

    • It can be beyond penetration; a superstructure hardened against conventional strike ordinance.

    • The defensive ring has become unacceptably strengthened beyond strike acceptable limits.


    Usually, during the Political-Military Decision Making Process (Strike/NO Strike), a series of "risk assessments" are performed. These assessments take into consideration the goals and objectives of the strike, against several success factors beyond the mission package surviveability factors. One of those "risk assessments" considers the target versus the weapons system. If the target is immune to the conventional weapons package selected, and cannot be damaged beyond a level that can be rapidly repaired, or meets politically essential objectives, (strike surviveable) THEN, it is sometimes referred to - as being in the "Zone of Immunity."

    Usually the risk assessment is based on all-source intelligence through a Measurement and Signature Intelligence (MASINT) analysis process. It would appear that some crucial targets, relative to the Iranian Critical Nuclear Weapons Design, Testing, and Production (CNWDI/CNWDTP) process have been evaluated and are in the acquisition process of an immunity.

    NOTE: Normally, the national security apparatus of Israel would not make public such a risk assessment determination unless it had some overwhelming advantage gain; or it was part of a deception - relative to a strike window or target identity. The deception, may take many forms. It may be to give a false sense of security in the structural defense (hardening), making the Iranians think they are on the right track. It may be that the strike may not be by air at all, but by ground intrusion. While everyone is looking at the probably air strike, it will really take the form of a special operation or commando raid. Or it may be just to add chaos into the mix; causing an artificial stress point (there really is no target immunity) in the timeline to increase tension and possibly improving the chances of a break-through or compromise in the negotiations.

    My experience has been to always look at the Israeli with a critical eye. They are not beyond trying to drag the US into a war if it suits their purpose. Remember the USS Liberty.

    Most Respectfully,
    R
    Last edited by RoccoR; 21 Mar 12, at 21:18. Reason: Spelling & Grammar
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