Thread: Bunker Busters shipped to Diego Garcia

Originally Posted by Mihais

A war you start,but you're not prepared to do the utmost to finish it would be better not started.

Absolutrly, but not every war needs an occupation. Do we want to effect a regime change, or simply remove the regimes ability to thug on the international stage.

Iran may be a dependent on exports,and a war may ruin that,but a nation can take a lot before quitting.They aren't pantsies,you know.

I fully expect Iran to use every tool it can lay its hands on. However Iran is more than just export dependent, its also import dependent. Long term control of gasoline and food is a powerful tool as the Iraq sanctions showed. it can't topple a regime, but blockade can ruin ambitions.

They won't stand idle and they won't attack you in your strongest points either.

Yup, they have made it very clear they they will. Hence the attack on their ability to use their tools in a concerted effort.

[quite]The world won't be better off with a nuclear Iran and that needs to be dealt with.But the world won't a be a better place with what could be the ''mother of asymmetric battles''.Iran's C2 can be damaged but not neutralized by air campaign.[/quote]

Here we have a bit of disagreement. I don't want to knock out 100%. Just enough to keep them from being able to do mass attacks on her neighbors and shipping.

Iranian morale won't colapse because of bombings.The epidemics that are likely to start won't kill all of them and people can eat a lot of unlikely things to survive.You said there are no starving nationalists.You're correct,but a lot of time is needed to arrive to THAT kind of starvation that is bad enough.

Bombing or military and industrial sites, direct military defeats, failure of the much touted Iranian responses, shortages at the bazaars, hungry bellies, no gasoline, CNN and Al Jazerra reports beamed into Iranian TV's when there is power, the population living under air raid sirens....

Also the geopolitcs aren't as clear as you make them sound.So you either do it properly which will be relatively short and very brutal(which will require a significant effort),do it from air only,which will be a mess with unforseeable consequences or deal with nuclear Iran.Neither choice is easy.

I like short but very very brutal fro the air backed by good ol' fashioned blockade. Air power can win wars, just ask the Dutch. Combine death from above with blockade and you have a very serious threat. If you want to do a proper curb stumping on someone, find out what they hold most dear and destroy it. Iran takes great pride in its advancement since 1979. We (west) have not made it clear that when war comes all those factories, advances and accomplishments are going to be assigned to the scrap heap. The most wired population in the Mideast, the only (semi) industrial power in the Mideast besides Israel, world leader in things like cloning, their aerospace and electronics industries..... everything gone- reduced back to the level of simple oil merchants and rug weavers. The Iranian people and regime do not seem to understand this basic fact.

IIRC, it was determined of Iraq that when it came to preemptive war to prevent WMD acquisition, ground control from the air was not enough: we needed boots on the ground. Question: is this position still valid with regards to Iran?

William

Originally Posted by Mihais

A war you start,but you're not prepared to do the utmost to finish it would be better not started.

I don't think a war in the conventional sense is needed. I see it more as a demolition project. No good can come from making Iranians as whole suffer and there is even no real need to blow away the government. Our purpose is to neuter their nuke weapon ambitions. To do that all we need to do is to take away their nuke toys.

Originally Posted by JAD_333

I don't think a war in the conventional sense is needed. I see it more as a demolition project. No good can come from making Iranians as whole suffer and there is even no real need to blow away the government. Our purpose is to neuter their nuke weapon ambitions. To do that all we need to do is to take away their nuke toys.

Excellent post JAD!

In order for us to take away the nuke toys, we have to destroy the infrastruture used to make those nuke toys and that means power grids and water mains. Make no mistake about this, we are going to make life miserable for a lot of Iranians.

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

In order for us to take away the nuke toys, we have to destroy the infrastruture used to make those nuke toys and that means power grids and water mains. Make no mistake about this, we are going to make life miserable for a lot of Iranians.

With any luck Sir, they will know it is the regimes rhetoric and threats that have led to this and not the good people that caused this. This regime will leave the rest of the world no choice just like they leave their people without any choice as well. The regime will blame all of us but in the end its their cross to bear. So be it, its their ignorance that will cause it.

Fellas, as much as I like the last two posts, it just ain't gonna happen. There is simply nothing the Iranians could do that would so provoke our 'President' into doing anything effective.

Both of you, me, and a few others find the prospect of Iranian nukes unacceptable. Obama and his administration, however, have always taken that view that military action against them is unacceptable.

There IS another choice, and this idiot has made it: the Iranians are going to get nuclear weapons. Once they do, there is simply nothing at all that can be done about it then. And so, ONCE AGAIN, we are faced with the absolutely predictable outcome of the American electorate's tantrum, and it comes home to all of us that elections have extremely serious consequences.

At the very least, kick Iran out of the NPT.

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

At the very least, kick Iran out of the NPT.

The fact that it hasn't happened is all you need to know about the value of any agreement with a bad actor. And those that believe in the value of treaties with a bad actor.

JAD,Dreadnought.I don't know gentlemen how can you say such things.When a state attacks another is a war.No need to invent euphemisms.Serve only for self delusion.When a foreigner attacks,people never blame their own government.Especially a people like the Iranians today.
Now even if you call whatever you wish,but Iran will be at war.The longer it lasts,an Iranian campaign against US public or private assets worldwide will have time to make headway.In their place I would have by now a few hundreds sleeper cells in CONUS.Does your nation have the motivation to exchange blows with Iran?

And whatever it happens to Iran,they might think they can rebuild it in 15 years.They might take the gamble.

Mihais, Perhaps you might want to ask the Iranian regime how they can say such things and provoke such feelings. It is becuase of this, that we have the situation we have now. If she gets a nuclear weapon the ME will never be the same again. Personally I dont want to see this happen and more then likely neither does anyone else, but what choice will we have if she continues her course?

Dread,killing their nuke program may be achievable.Killing their grand prospects won't be so easy.Half-hearted measures will still result in a war.But it won't be in your terms.Everyone on Earth is aware what USAF is able to do.There will be no surprise.Then the initiative will pass to them.Can you handle 100 snipers shooting in various locations in the States every week?Can your people handle attacks on power grids or pipelines going to Bum****,Iowa(just learned about this new great tourist attraction) without going on war footing?Same about shipments going worldwide.Can your airlines handle MANPADS killing internal flights in Alaska? That's what I would do in their place.I'd have nothing to lose.I know their C2 will be hit and that will slow them,but they have time.Buried telephone lines are harder to get,while motorcycle couriers(heck,3000 years horse speed was good enough) simply cannot be touched.
I don't say you can't achieve your purpose.But plans don't survive the first contact.You plan to bomb,then stand idle.Heck,from the start you don't plan much.You might want to confine the conflict,but there are 2 dancing.You hope for Iranian people to rebel.People don't rebel in times of war against those speaking the same language.And hope isn't a solution.''Real'' war is.It's your nation that must decide if Iran is worth the effort.IMV,you will either stand idle or sc..w it royally.I'm not happier for it.

Saddam called out for the exact same thing. Nothing happenned. No further need to look further than Chechnya and Xinjiang. Despite the big attactions (Moscow theatre, Beslan, and Xingiang riots), how many car bombs went off in those countries?

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

At the very least, kick Iran out of the NPT.

They wont leave the NPT sir, because they know that once they leave the NPT they become fair play.