Thread: Bunker Busters shipped to Diego Garcia

"bombing the civilian power grid would give the Ayatollah and the populace reason to unite over a 'foreign invader'."

The ol' gang was chanting "Death To Obama" and "Death To America" yesterday. That's been the mantra since 1978. Most of those opposed to the present regime are, however, quite likely in favor Iran's "inalienable nuclear rights" in any case.

Personally, I could give a sh!t if we turn their lights off because they weren't quicker to the draw on dumping their mullocracy and coming to their senses.

"Arming and aiding in forming a resistance should be looked into."

Quite likely it has and been rejected as pointless. The objective is to keep Iran from a nuclear weapon. That promises no speedy remedy.

Originally Posted by S-2

"Going after power grids is a great way to spread the pain among the population."

No argument and I think my comment makes that clear regarding its value premised upon ratcheting the pain among their citizenry. I simply believe that we'll be busy the first couple of nights servicing those targets that will afford us unimpeded access to their skies to do whatever it is we intend doing.

If we don't get satisfaction and access necessary to assure the compliance we seek, I see no reason not to take down their general grid. I've little doubt that specific nodes will go down near immediately if we believe it's the best means of rendering a specific nuclear-related facility inoperative. Putting the lights out in suburbs of Teheran may not be immediately necessary however.

Unlike Iraq where we had massive air bases and carriers in the gulf, access to Iran won't be so easy. Even our cruise missiles are mostly out of range. Hitting deep in Iran is going to be the work of B-1's and B-2's. The real fight will be along the coast near the Strait of Hormuz. The Tomahawks we can fire via B-52's coming in over Iraq would be best served going after softer targets since they are not bunker busters. Power grids and other duel use infrastructure sites are high payoff targets and they don't give the population time to adjust to the fact they are at war. They go strait from life is normal to this sucks.

The kids stay home from school, they can't go outside and play because of the ordnance exploding overhead, the markets are closed, there is no fresh food, there is no water, no power to cook or cool the house with. Insta-seige and it forces the regime to devote resources to maintaining the social contract. The fact that 80% of Iran's population is in or near Tehran makes this job so much easier.

If we really want to fvck with them, we leave the grid to the richest neighborhoods up. The richest of the university families living in among the clerics and guards will see this one way but the poor will see the clerics and guards having a special "bomb proof" access to basic services....

Originally Posted by Mihais

Sir,a thing that troubles me about Kosovo.I had the opportunity to talk to a Serbian BatCom in the 3d Army.Although the 3d Army was spread all over Kosovo the guy was quite convinced they would have halted you,thanks to their extensive defensive preps and the terrain that channeled your offensive.I wasn't that sure,so asking someone elses opinion doesn't hurt.IIRC you were a BatCom there and then,albeit on the other side.

I was with 1CMBG HQ at the time, not Battle Group CO. When we were ready to do a ground penetration, the war was called off.

That being said, the penetration was going to be lasering targets, not a breaching operation though 3 RCR BG and LdSH (RC) BG was massing on the border. The actual penetration was going to be done by the 22SAS and JTF2. The massing of Canadian and British BGs were to force the 3JA to mass to oppose us and thus concentrating their assets for the 22SAS and JTF2 guys to laser.

We were far from ready to do a full breach mainly the Americans got a late start to getting ready. We needed another month before the Americans would have been prepared.

As for stopping us once we were prepared, I doubt it. The 3JA BN CO has a job to be confident but once the war was over, we've shown how we were going to advance and the fact was that we were going to use a verticle envelopment. A French BG was helo inserted in deep into Kosovo. Albeit they were trapped by a minefield, it never the less represented a force in the 3JA's rear while 3 RCR BG was already making its move forward. In other words, we had them surrounded.

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

ASparr and the rest of you anti-military action people, I hope you get the sense of how truly ugly we see this situation. War is never a good option and I hope that we have painted how ugly that option is. However, war may be the lesser of two evils and that is saying something, especially in how we painted the picture.

If given enough time, we can reverse the damage done by a broken water main. We cannot reverse the damage done by a mushroom cloud.

Sir, I don't know if they can get it. I think a lot of them can't get past people will die and that we seem to be hawks who think it will be easy. I wish they understood that we don't think it will be easy. A lot of people are going to die if war comes and their deaths are going to wreck even more lives. One of the words oldest cultures is facing a wrath more terrible than the Mongol invasion. A proud people who have made so much progress and who are a testament to their nation stand to lose it all because of a cliche of rulers who is completely out of touch.

I don't want war, Iran and the US should be natural allies. Iranian Americans thrive here and have contributed to American society. But if the choice is wrecking Iran or seeing the Mideast consumed in war and the global economy wrecked then its a triage situation and Iran isn't worth saving. 100,000 dead and 10 years of terror attacks with oil prices staying over $300 a barrel is preferable to a WMD exchange. The Tel Aviv metro area has a population of 3.15 million while the Tehran metro area is 13.41 million. Another 14.58 million live in the Damascus Syria metro area. The Mideast is not the land of pastoral existence. it is a highly urbanized region meaning it is highly vulnerable to nuclear or other WMD attacks.

This is the threat a nuclear armed Iran presents.

OoE,Thanks for your answer,Sir.

"I don't want war, Iran and the US should be natural allies. Iranian Americans thrive here and have contributed to American society. But if the choice is wrecking Iran or seeing the Mideast consumed in war and the global economy wrecked then its a triage situation and Iran isn't worth saving."

That seems to sum matters nicely. It's been a long dance to reach the point where we're rapidly closing down upon. Too bad that rational heads couldn't prevail in Persia but they've annointed themselves with some perverse wisdom about what they're entitled and the manner in which they'll seek entitlement.

Probably needs to stop before a whole bunch of people get seriously hurt.

Originally Posted by zraver

Sir, I don't know if they can get it. I think a lot of them can't get past people will die and that we seem to be hawks who think it will be easy. I wish they understood that we don't think it will be easy. A lot of people are going to die if war comes and their deaths are going to wreck even more lives. One of the words oldest cultures is facing a wrath more terrible than the Mongol invasion. A proud people who have made so much progress and who are a testament to their nation stand to lose it all because of a cliche of rulers who is completely out of touch.

The only problem,Z,is that peoples minds are a battlefield.As long as people don't see the business end of a barrel in their face they tend to ignore the threat.A too long history of human complacency makes me a pessimist about this whole endeavour.I'd like to be wrong.

Originally Posted by zraver

But if the choice is wrecking Iran or seeing the Mideast consumed in war and the global economy wrecked then its a triage situation and Iran isn't worth saving. 100,000 dead and 10 years of terror attacks with oil prices staying over $300 a barrel is preferable to a WMD exchange.

I don't think there will be a choice between two evils.Iran will be wrecked and Mideast will be consumed in war.World economy will be a mess.No matter what Obama,A-jad or Bibi Netanyahu might plan,the current set of events can only lead there.Sooner or later,we'll arrive at a hellish moment,of one sort or another.What you Americans should do is plan for as many outcomes as possible.There is really no point debating how the air strikes will occur.What happens next with all that have a stake in Iran is important.

[QUOTE=Mihais;725154]


I don't think there will be a choice between two evils.Iran will be wrecked and Mideast will be consumed in war.World economy will be a mess.No matter what Obama,A-jad or Bibi Netanyahu might plan,the current set of events can only lead there.Sooner or later,we'll arrive at a hellish moment,of one sort or another.[quote]

The choice is what kind of hellish moment. Like I said, its a triage situation- Iran v the world.

What you Americans should do is plan for as many outcomes as possible.There is really no point debating how the air strikes will occur.What happens next with all that have a stake in Iran is important.

The best way to control the situation is to curb stomp them and keep curb stomping them until they are dead or you've beat the fight out of them.