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Thread: Endgame in Iran?

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinja View Post
    Good forder for the regime's propaganda. I think the administration here made a miscalculation.
    Extending the diplomatic hand is always the first recourse, it happens in various ways. Im pretty surprised you consider it a miscalculation. You don't bite the hand that feeds you.

    How is the regime denying a visit from a high ranking congressman going to provide any propoganda splurge by the Iranian Govt when it starts raining bombs? Those that would believe that sorta propoganda probably deserve the hurt!
    Last edited by Chunder; 08 Jan 10, at 17:16.
    Ego Numquam

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Countezero View Post
    A good article from the Times that bounces a lot of different views back and forth.

    Iran Shielding Its Nuclear Efforts in Maze of Tunnels - NYTimes.com
    Our challenge is finding them. Once we find them, we can kill them. Not necessarily collapsing these tunnels but to deny them air, water, electricity, even such a soft kill is a permenant kill since cascades need to be shut down, cleaned, and then restarted.
    Chimo

  3. #153
    Contributor Aryajet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinja View Post
    Insensitive and immoral in what sense? Why did you not toi-toi the streets when US servicemen were being blown to pieces by Iran made bombs? How is that more moral than merely saying the Iranians should pave their own freedom? Yes, human suffering caused by oppressive regimes is inexcusable and our hearts go out to the suffering Iranians who are on the receiving end of this regime, and we do wish them speedy success in their endeavor. However to think that your cause is more deserving because you can post videos of, may i respectfully say 8 people, when there has been no street protests when more than 4 000 US servicemen were being killed by weapons made by your same country is, to put it mildly, hypocritical.
    1-So, do you claim All 4000 US casualties in Iraq and A-stan were killed by bombs made in Iran?
    2-It seems you still have difficulties distingushing between Iranians and the muderous regime of IRI.
    3- You said the same people who are getting killed in streets of Iran today have been demonstrating against US 2 years ago. That is what I called immoral. Because what you see on the open in the streets today have been brewing ever since early 80s. No real Iranian will dance on the streets celebrating any human being loosing life.

    Mind you Iranians were the only muslim nation who despite of serious clampdown by their government and regardless of future repercussion by government held candle light vigil to mourn and sympathize with Americans and the families of over 3000 innocent victims of 9/11 attacks.

    They arranged an imaginary Ground Zero in north/central Tehran and 9 o'clock at night majority in black outfit, silently walked toward the spot by 10s of 1000s, expressed their sorrow and paid their homage to the Fallen by mounding flowers and leaving candles in entire square.
    Surprisingly government decide to turn blind eyes toward the congregation and did not take any action.

  4. #154
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    Aryajet,

    I hope this is a legitimate question but you've obviously got out and from the Iranian expats here in Canada, travel to and from Iran does not seem to be restrictive. If this is such a restrictive regieme, then why ain't the emmigration gates closed?
    Chimo

  5. #155
    Contributor Aryajet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinja View Post
    Im being accused of being 'insensitive, immoral and selfish' for merely saying Iranians should secure its own freedom, the US shouldn't be obligated to intervene. Aryjet's accusation seems to sterms from the allegation that im not being sensitive to the suffering Iranians which has resulted in the untimely dates of 8 people. I have a problem with that. Where were the same Iranians in the untimely deaths of 4 000 american service personnel, mainly killed by weapons made by their country? To cry for American interevention now because they are on the receiving end when they were silent when americans were dying, to me is very dishonest to put it mildly. To just say 'majority of Iranians do not support the I.R' does not cut it for me. We are not just talking about Americans only but massive numbers of Iraqis as well, and it was known to the very same Iranian public that their bombs were responsible but they did and said nothing. It was the Americans that protested against its own gvt in the Vietnam war, remember?

    Zinja, Sir,
    I had no other chopice to copy and paste your post for you to read again.

    On the contrary im a now a firm believer in countries liberating themselves. For far too long the US has been getting the stick at every turn for trying to help people. And sometimes more often than not, the same people who the US help then come back to bite the US. Its about time the US held back a bit until people learn to appreciate help the next time they get it. I bet you some of those people who are now battling the Iranian regime, two years ago have been chanting death to the US and Israel. I really sympathise with what they are doing now trying to secure their freedom, but i still hold firmly that unless people themselves pay the price for their freedom, they will never appreciate it.
    It is the highlighted which I called immoral, insensitive and selfish, no one asked for your or any other nation's help for us to pave the road for freedom, we'll get it with flying color on our own. Stay tuned.

    Was that before or after their little secret was exposed by Alireza Jafarzadeh? Would they have held those vigils if it was after? I can't help but wonder.
    You really have not much information about a nation which you hold such a strong opinion about. Do you.
    Tha candle vigil which 1980's is talking about happened only few days after 9/11 tragedies. Jafarzadeh blew the whistle on regime on late 2002. Do you think you got your answer now? or still wondering?

  6. #156
    Contributor Aryajet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Aryajet,

    I hope this is a legitimate question but you've obviously got out and from the Iranian expats here in Canada, travel to and from Iran does not seem to be restrictive. If this is such a restrictive regieme, then why ain't the emmigration gates closed?
    Colonel,
    Shortly after revolution they did close the gates, the entire passport issuing offices were shut down for over 2-1/2 years, but young regime faced an unprecedented administration havoc. Students, ill people seeking medical attention abroad, foreign nationals, government employees and many others who had legitimante reason to travel abroad had to deal with departments which had no knowledge of travel and tourism, so the order was tossed.


    The Iranians who decide to leave and live in diaspora generally are disenchanted with central government and regime knows that very well. In many occasions when the head honchos of the regime have been cornered and questioned about the problem of brain drain they said "Let them leave, at the end we will have a nation full of pure loyal and devoted citizens". They probably would love to exile the entire population of Green Movement if they could.

    Also we should consider the benefit of Iranians living abroad traveling in and out of Iran who bring hard currency with them which regime is starving for.

    At the other hand no one ever claimed the regime is 100% restrictive, Iranians can do any thing they want as long as they don't cross the red line of sharia laws (i.e proper attire in public, drinking, unmarried couple walking together etc) and never meddle in or question the politics specially the legitimacy of barbaric republic.

  7. #157
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    Interesting Article

    Israel is issuing gas masks to all its citizens next month. Could this be a sign its planning an attack on Iran?

    Possible Attack?

  8. #158
    Patron Ararat's Avatar
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    Do Iranians fighting for their freedom and showing their reactions to years of oppression have a leader?

    It can not be Mousavi.......that is no change.
    Wolf Hunter

  9. #159
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    Then who do you suggest?
    Chimo

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Then who do you suggest?
    I wouldn’t know sir, I am no expert or have any qualifications to even sound intelligent.............but to me a real change would mean all Mullahs getting their butts kicked back to kom where they freaking belong and a democratic government put in place separated from religion for the people by the people without outside influence other than morale support and discrediting the current government.
    Wolf Hunter

  11. #161
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    Then, may I ask, who do you like to see? At least give us an idea what the Iran is that you want to see. Shiara Law? ME Power? Nuclear Weapons Power? (Be advised I have no qualms with this as long as Iran withdraws from the NPT before she builds her first warhead). Bulwark against Israel?

    What is the Iran that you want to see?
    Chimo

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    ....
    What is the Iran that you want to see?
    A democratic Iran with separation of church and state that has good relations with the West.

    I should have been clear, my question about leader(s) or their cause was directed to the Iranian posters here. I am trying to understand.

    Thanks in advance.
    Wolf Hunter

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ararat View Post
    Do Iranians fighting for their freedom and showing their reactions to years of oppression have a leader?

    It can not be Mousavi.......that is no change.
    Mousavi is a change, and him or someone like him may be the only change possible in the short term. Just as the Shah didn't fall until many of the urban liberals who should have supported him most finally withdrew, so Khatamei & A-jad won't fall until at least part of the conservative rural population & clerical class desert them.

    Violence probably isn't going to do the job either. The state just has too many options here. Those who would administer the violence are probably not going to change sides in enough numbers to even the odds, so enough of them have to be persuaded to sit the fight out. If they see a radical revolution in the making they might decide it is better to fight.

    Sahabi could hardly be called an Islamist, but he makes a good point:

    In the first week of January came an admonition. Ezzatollah Sahabi, a veteran opposition figure, issued an open letter in which he warned the green movement not to slide towards “radicalism and violence”. To excitable exiles who detect shades of 1978-79 in today’s convulsions, he advised against unrealistic hopes: “A revolution in today’s Iran”, he wrote, “is neither possible nor desirable.” If moderate clerics and conservatives were forced to choose between a movement of radicals and the status quo, he predicted, they would choose stability.
    Iran isn't magically going to transform into a western-style democracy. The first aim has to be to remove the current regime & increase personal & political freedom. Keep in mind that the Shah wasn't immediately replaced by the mullahs. That took time & Saddam (among other things). Mousavi or someone similar is a step in the right direction & he might be the only step possible in the forseeable future.

    Iran and its region: A supreme leader at bay | The Economist
    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

  14. #164
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    Iranian nuclear professor dies in bomb blast - reports


    Prof Mohammadi was killed as he was leaving his home, media say
    An Iranian nuclear physics professor has been killed in a bomb attack in the capital Tehran, Iranian media say.
    They say that Masoud Mohammadi died after a remotely controlled bomb exploded near his home.
    Iranian media describe him as a "devoted revolutionary professor" killed by "anti-revolutionary" groups.
    It comes at a time of heightened tension in Iran, following June's disputed presidential election and mass protests against the government.
    'Arrogant powers'
    Prof Mohammadi of Tehran University "was killed in a booby-trapped motorbike blast" in the city's northern Qeytariyeh district, Press TV said.

    Police sealed off the area and launched an investigation
    It showed pictures from the scene of the blast, saying windows in the nearby buildings were shattered by the force of the explosion.
    Local media reports say the bomb was attached to a motorcycle parked outside Prof Mhammadi's home, although onoe agency said it was planted in a rubbish bin.
    State broadcaster Irib said Prof Mohammadi "was martyred this morning in a terrorist act by anti-revolutionary and arrogant powers' elements".
    The BBC's Tehran correspondent Jon Leyne says Iran usually refers to its enemies in the West as "the arrogant powers".
    Police sealed off the area and launched an investigation into the incident.
    No-one has claimed responsibility for the blast and at this stage there could only be speculation for possible motives of the attack, correspondents say.
    There has been much controversy over Iran's nuclear activities.
    Tehran says its nuclear programme is for peaceful energy purposes, but the US and other Western nations suspect it of seeking to build nuclear weapons.
    In December, Tehran accused Saudi Arabia of detaining an Iranian nuclear scientist and handing him over the US.
    Saudi Arabia denied the claim.
    beeb


    I wonder who could be behind this?

  15. #165
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
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    Its not the West, they already have one defected person with insight into the regime, what the regimes been up to as far as North Korea and Syria are concerned. IMO, Its a night of long knives in Achmadinnerjacket's camp. It just goes to show you that no one is safe in his regime from being silenced.

    If the Iranian people believe the tripe this man is writing, I would be surprised. the west wouldn't use a bomb on a motor bike, It would be dropped from about 30,000 feet from a jet and would do a hell of a lot more damage and cause more death then this.

    Here's a hint: Trace the explosive residues, its obviously someone that knows the gentlemans day to day patterns and travel habits (either the Basij or another of dinnerjackets flunkies) and fears what he may have to say.

    I wonder who that might be since the West would only be concerned with listenening to what he has to say to gather more intell. Not fear what he has to say. I bet dinnerjacket and his friends cant say the same for themselves huh?):P
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 12 Jan 10, at 17:59.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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