View Poll Results: Should Israel go ahead with the attack?

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  • YES

    35 32.71%
  • Not without US backing

    21 19.63%
  • NO

    51 47.66%
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Thread: Should Israel Attack Iran's Nuclear Reactor?

  1. #31
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    Israel never signed the NPT.
    Chimo

  2. #32
    Contributor Aryajet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HazeGrey View Post
    Aryajet. I do not understand your opinion that they(Iran) would continue nuclear R&D all the way to the point of just short of making the actual bomb and then they will stop? It's like saying that a marathon runner will just stop short of the finish line.
    Can you please explain you opinion as to why Iran would stop at the finish line?
    Dear H.G
    Sorry for belated respond.
    There are multiple reasons why I believe Islamic Republic will halt the nuclear R&D just short of actual detonation of a test bomb.
    There are many nations around the world who still support Iranian nuclear energy program and they don't believe Iran is after WMD, such a test will leave no doubt in any ones mind meaning the whole world will turn against them and consequent sanctions will be deadly.
    Nuclear Iran will cast mayhem in the region, meaning every single nation in the middle east will have to establish a rather back breaking (cost wise) missile shield or they will have to counter the threat with their own bomb. I don't believe Iran will want all nuclear neighbors.
    They were able to rally the majority of Iranians to support nuclear energy program based on repeated promise that the R&D is solely for energy purposes and there will not be any weaponization. Islamic Republic leaders including supreme leader have publicly and repeatedly declared that "possession of WMD is against Islam" and deviation from that will provide plenty of opportunity for domestic opposition claiming the Islamic leaders are no one but bunch of liars.
    Also looking at what happened to North Korea and Libya they might just save the precious cash and not go there at all.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by eclectic-cynic View Post
    Bomb design: there is lots of data in the public domain - not very difficult - the Manhattan project produced a design in 2 years using hand calculators and punched card multipliers - see Richard Feynman.
    Find me a working blueprint, not a cutaway diagram but an actual blueprint including the design of the fuses, anywhere on the internet.

    What's more, the design that the Iranians have CICH-4 is a working warhead blueprint, not just a bomb but a warhead designed to fit onto a missile. Find me that on the internet.

    Lastly, the CICH-4 is the design that we know Iran has. What we don't know if Iran got the modified Pakistani versions. We do know, however, that those modified designs were also up for sale.
    Chimo

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aryajet View Post
    Dear H.G
    Sorry for belated respond.
    There are multiple reasons why I believe Islamic Republic will halt the nuclear R&D just short of actual detonation of a test bomb.
    There are many nations around the world who still support Iranian nuclear energy program and they don't believe Iran is after WMD, such a test will leave no doubt in any ones mind meaning the whole world will turn against them and consequent sanctions will be deadly.
    Nuclear Iran will cast mayhem in the region, meaning every single nation in the middle east will have to establish a rather back breaking (cost wise) missile shield or they will have to counter the threat with their own bomb. I don't believe Iran will want all nuclear neighbors.
    They were able to rally the majority of Iranians to support nuclear energy program based on repeated promise that the R&D is solely for energy purposes and there will not be any weaponization. Islamic Republic leaders including supreme leader have publicly and repeatedly declared that "possession of WMD is against Islam" and deviation from that will provide plenty of opportunity for domestic opposition claiming the Islamic leaders are no one but bunch of liars.
    Also looking at what happened to North Korea and Libya they might just save the precious cash and not go there at all.
    That seems to nail it.

    But will Israel see it that way?
    Last edited by ANZAC; 06 Jan 09, at 07:11.

  5. #35
    Contributor Aryajet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANZAC View Post
    That seems to nail it.

    But will Israel see it that way?
    Any person with an ounce of common sense will have serious hard time understanding this fabricated enmity among these 2 nations. They are not neighbors, they never had any sort of territorial dispute, never been any pact or treaty to be violated. Just like Israel, Iran is surrounded by threats (except for Turkmenistan perhaps) and during Iran-Iraq war Israel was the major supporter of Iran.
    For above reasons and no matter how hard I try, I just can't comprehend this preposterous enmity among these 2 nations.
    This fake animosity can't be justified based on ideology either because Quran the Holiest book in Islam historically put the Children of Israel (Bani-Israel) exactly where they are today.

  6. #36
    Senior Contributor Stitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eclectic-cynic View Post
    Why would Israel use its air force?; it too has missiles of adequate range to reach Iran.
    They may have missles, but they still won't be as accurate as an F-15I Ra'am with a couple of GBU-28's under the wings; in this case, accuracy is far more important than destructive power.

    "Yeah. See, we plan ahead, that way we don't do anything right now. Earl explained it to me." - Tremors, 1990

  7. #37
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    Yeah, but they don't have to worry about recovering missiles. Their pilots and aircraft aren't exactly a renewable resource, and Israel doesn't have the legs to hit all the targets they need to sufficiently to put them out of action.

    Really, to be effective against Iran, Israel would have to go nuclear.

  8. #38
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    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28595386/

    updated 7:38 p.m. ET, Sat., Jan. 10, 2009
    WASHINGTON - President George W. Bush rejected a plea from Israel last year to help it raid Iran's main nuclear complex, opting instead to authorize a new U.S. covert action aimed at sabotaging Iran's suspected nuclear weapons program, The New York Times reported.

    Israel's request was for specialized bunker-busting bombs that it wanted for an attack that tentatively involved flying over Iraq to reach Iran's major nuclear complex at Natanz, where the country's only known uranium enrichment plan is located, the Times reported Saturday in its online edition. The White House deflected requests for the bombs and flyover but said it would improve intelligence-sharing with Israel on covert U.S. efforts to sabotage Iran's nuclear program.

    The covert efforts, which began in early 2008, involved plans to penetrate Iran's nuclear supply chain abroad and undermine electrical systems and other networks on which Iran relies, the Times said, citing interviews with current and former U.S. officials, outside experts and international nuclear inspectors who spoke on condition of anonymity. The covert program will be handed off to President-elect Barack Obama, who will deciding whether to continue it.

    Story continues below ↓
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    According to the Times, Bush decided against an overt attack based on input from top administration officials such as Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who believed that doing so would likely prove ineffective and could ignite a broader Middle East war.

    Israel made the push for permission to fly over Iraq for an attack on Iran following its anger over a U.S. intelligence assessment in late 2007 that concluded Iran had effectively suspended its development of nuclear weapons four years earlier. Israel sought to rebut the report, providing evidence to U.S. intelligence officials that they said indicated the Iranians were still working on a weapon.

    Gordon Johndroe, spokesman for the National Security Council, declined to comment Saturday.

    In an interview with The Associated Press earlier this week, Stephen Hadley, Bush's national security adviser, said he believed that Iran is the biggest challenge Obama will face in the Middle East and that more sanctions will be needed to force Tehran to forgo its nuclear ambitions and support for extremists. He said the Bush administration has been trying to "shore up and store up leverage" to bequeath to the Obama administration.

    Last month, Obama suggested that a combination of economic incentives and tighter sanctions might work. Tehran rejected the proposal. Obama also has said he would pursue tough-minded diplomacy.
    The human mind cannot grasp the causes of phenomena in the aggregate. But the need to find these causes is inherent in man’s soul. And the human intellect, without investigating the multiplicity and complexity of the conditions of phenomena, any one of which taken separately may seem to be the cause, snatches at the first, the most intelligible approximation to a cause, and says: “This is the cause!"

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  9. #39
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    Yeah I read that one yesterday. Not so covert now I guess.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traxus View Post
    I think its pretty unlikely Obama would support an attack. Israel had the most hawkish US president they could get in power for 8 years. But even Bush didn't seem willing to support such an attack. If he's not going to, I don't see there being any way Obama will lend his support to such an opperation.
    Unless some high ranking Jewish politician convinces him or some Zionists find blackmail on him, I don't see it happening either. It would take something like that to cause Obama to change his mind and support Israel's action of bombing Iran. All it would do is lead to a much larger instability in the entire Middle East and possibly lead to a full out World War.

    You may see more than the immediate neighbors of Israel decide to attack them at that point. I'm aware that THEY get attacked, but unfortunately for them, not a lot of countries like Israel, nor the methods from which the Jews were just given a country.

  11. #41
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    Israel has already demonstrated that it can handle all of its neighbors... and that has only gotten more true as time has gone on. Syrian military capabilities have degraded and the Egyptians have become far less interested in adventures abroad. Israel's one true foreign policy concern should be that the US will decide to bring them to heel.

  12. #42
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    According to the New York Times ( http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/12/us..._r=1&ref=world )

    Last year, President Bush deflected a secret request by Israel for specialized bombs it wanted for an attack on Iran’s main nuclear complex, The New York Times reported on Sunday. Quoting senior American and foreign officials, the article said that the president told the Israelis that he had authorized new covert action intended to sabotage Iran’s suspected effort to develop nuclear weapons.

  13. #43
    Red October Senior Contributor Monk's Avatar
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    It would be the most insanely stupid mistake. And before anyone jumps, I am a strong supporter of Israel. However I see the Iranian people in a different light and really worth protecting. The world has to gain a significantly superior understanding of the Iranian people. Currently our reaction to the Iranians is plain stupid.
    "Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those others that have been tried from time to time. "

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  14. #44
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    Well done to the New York Times,The one option to bring Iran to the Negotiation Table,A nuclear Accident caused by Covert Means.

    Well its back to the Drawing Board,How many Kartusha Rockets have Iran given too Hamas?

  15. #45
    tankie Military Professional tankie's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Woodsy the Lar;600960.

    Well its back to the Drawing Board,How many Kartusha Rockets have Iran given too Hamas?[/QUOTE]







    TANKIE. ECO WARRIOR , SAVE THE TREES

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