Can America take down Iran in a war? - Page 4

**Shek** · 05-02-2008, 20:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snc128

which Hezbollah you are refering to? because there are many... and to let you know, they arenot completely shi'a or sunni or even completely consist of muslims!

Lebanon's Party of God. The information below is for the benefit of Zemco.

Quote:

ICT - International Institute for Counter-Terrorism - Articles - Suicide Terrorism: Development & Characteristics

Hizballah suicide terrorism

Suicide terror attacks started in Lebanon in April 1983. A small—and until then unknown—group by the name of Hizballah directed a number of suicide attacks against Western targets. The first attack was directed at the American embassy in Beirut (April 1983), followed by attacks on the U.S. Marines headquarters and the French Multinational Force (October 1983). The last two were executed simultaneously and resulted in 300 casualties and dozens of wounded. The later attack made an indelible impression on world public opinion and terror organizations alike.

After the withdrawal of the Western forces from Lebanon, Hizballah redirected its suicide activities in Lebanon against Israeli Defense Forces (convoys, posts and boarder passages) and against South Lebanese Army posts. Hizballah henceforth significantly decreased its use of this modus operandi to one attack per year or less. Despite this it enjoyed its legacy as the pioneer of suicide bombings in the region.

The aims of Hizballah suicide missions changed and developed over the course of time. Initially, Hizballah was interested in building up it image as a power. Since it was until then a small and little-known group in Lebanon, let alone in the rest of the world, the introduction of this new and devastating modus operandi served the goal of gaining local and global publicity and notoriety.

Hizballah also represented its Iranian patrons with a valuable image for the spread of the Islamic revolution. The readiness of Shi’ite terrorists, utterly fearless and ready to sacrifice themselves for the defense of the “oppressed on earth” was an important propagandist instrument for both Iran and Hizballah.

Hizballah’s suicide attacks were successful in driving the foreign UN Peace Keeping forces out of Lebanon. The attacks also caused the Israeli army to withdraw from the heartland of central Lebanon to a narrow strip in the South.

Suicide attacks also served the organization as a weapon of retaliation and deterrence against Israel. After the Israeli Air-Force killed Hizballah’s secretary general, Abas Musavi in February 1992, the organization carried out a suicide attack against the Israeli embassy in Buenos Aires (March 1992) killing 29 people and wounding 250.

In 1994 Hizballah executed another such attack in the same city, against the “AMIA” building of the local Jewish community in retaliation for I.D.F. aerial attack in Lebanon against a Hizballah training camp in Ein Dardara.

Lebanon had seen around 50 suicide attacks between 83-99. The Shiite organizations, Hizballah and Amal were responsible for about half of these. The second half is attributed to five other groups espousing a non-religious nationalist ideology. Impressed by the effectiveness of Hizballah’s attacks in precipitating the withdrawal of the “foreigners” from Lebanon, the nationalist groups followed suit.

Hizballah also influenced a number of terrorist organizations in other countries. Occasionally this influence went beyond merely being a role model.

In Kuwait there two suicide attacks were attributed to El-Dawa, a local Kuwaiti-Shiite fundamentalist group. The first suicide attack was carried out in December 1983 as one in a series of “conventional attacks” of attacks on American, French and Kuwaiti interests. The second attack was directed at the Emir al-Sabah, in May 1985. Hizballah’s direct involvement was proven when the Kuwaiti authorities arrested and tried seventeen people, among them, Mustafa Bader-el-Din a prominent terrorist in Hizballah’s external terror apparatus. Hizballah’s continuous and extensive efforts to release him and his partners came to be known as the “Dawa Seventeen” affair.

**Shek** · 05-02-2008, 20:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zemco

ARG 1 - a marine division will be airlifted to the eastern approaches as a blocking force. A marine amphibious brigade will establish and secure a beach-head to bring their armor, artillery and air defense ashore.

ARG 2 - a marine division will be airlifted to secure the only 2 bridges crossing the Karun River. The MAB will land and secure the port facilities.

Army Group - 5 brigade combat teams will race across the border to link up with the marine division and begin river crossing operations.

1. What air assets can airlift 2 Marine Divisions? The largest deep air assault operation to date has been a brigade. You want to air assault a force 6x larger that has fewer organic rotary wing lift assets?

2. 5 BCTs is not an Army Group. You've just described a reinforced division, which is three echelons below an Army Group.

cape_royds · 05-03-2008, 00:43 AM

Actually the point about Hezbollah not being entirely formed of Shia is true. Although it's still a Shi'ite fundamentalist party, its militia includes non-Shia contingents, even some southern Lebanese Christian members. The party has been somewhat successful at broadening its appeal since the 2006 war.

Also, Hezbollah is currently allied with the mostly Maronite Christian FPM, under their former opponent General Aoun!

**Officer of Engineers** · 05-03-2008, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zemco

No such thing as a MIRVd IRBM, you know, it's the physics thing.

The Russians had an IRBM that was a MRV (that's M-R-V not M-I-R-V).

Let's add another nail into this idiot's coffin

SS-20 SABRE with THREE MIRV warheads.

**Shek** · 05-03-2008, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cape_royds

Actually the point about Hezbollah not being entirely formed of Shia is true.

I'm not contending that this is false, just showing that there is a Shia based strain of suicide bombing. I suspect that they don't outsource their suicide bombing to non-Shia members, at least not wholesale.

Zaphael · 05-03-2008, 13:44 PM

zraver, you said,

Quote:

Sea- The carrier planes and attack subs will be trying to sink as much of the Iranian navy as possible in port. The subs will hunt the Iranian subs first. Cluster bombs will be the weapon of chose vs the speed boat sheds and boat crew barracks. Larger vessels will get individual missiles. However the bulk of USN air power will be doing SEAD work.

I think the speed boats would be targeted with Mavericks, while the larger vessels would be targeted by Harpoons.

Bombing a speed boat in CCIP would get a lil tough, IMO.

zraver · 05-03-2008, 13:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by citanon

Without knowing much about naval operations, it's not obvious we would lose an entire carrier group since these were able, in theory, to handle a Soviet air strike group back in the day and should have greater capabilities today from cooperative engagement and improved sensor, weapons, aircraft, etc. Granted, the Gulf area is highly constricted geographically.

Iran is going to do thier best to sink the carrier in the gulf, and at least until the straits are forced open its on its own except for defensive USAF cover.

Quote:

Also, why does even 1 carrier have to remain inside the Gulf with air operations running from Iraq, Kuwait, and possibly Saudi Arabia? Iraq would have limited say in the matter, Kuwait and the Saudis are both driven to counter Iranian attainment of nuclear arms.

Not saying you are wrong. Just looking for enlightenment.

If your sending a replacement carrier to the region and then pull 2 put leaving the gulf empty iran will increase readiness. They will anyway with three in the area but not as much if it looks like the US is leaving a big fish in the bag. Plus putting a Carrier and it's marines inside the Gulf increase the combat power the USMC can use against the Thunds.

Quote:

I think the speed boats would be targeted with Mavericks, while the larger vessels would be targeted by Harpoons.

Bombing a speed boat in CCIP would get a lil tough, IMO.

The FAC's are worthy of maveriks, but the speed boats and crews that pose the big threat to the tankers are cluster bomb sized.

ravi12 · 05-03-2008, 17:06 PM

Just an ignorant question.

How many missiles say an yakhont can a ship of different sizes, say, cruiser/ destroyer /aircraft carrier can take before they are temporarily out/ mission incapable/need to go for extensive repairs/ sunk?

Would a single hit direct on their propellers make them mission incapable?

zraver · 05-03-2008, 21:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravi12

Just an ignorant question.

How many missiles say an yakhont can a ship of different sizes, say, cruiser/ destroyer /aircraft carrier can take before they are temporarily out/ mission incapable/need to go for extensive repairs/ sunk?

Would a single hit direct on their propellers make them mission incapable?

propellers are sub surface. 1 missile in the right location can cripple a smaller vessel.

Big K · 05-05-2008, 13:56 PM

in a battle yes, but in a war, i dont think so.

you can not win a war against a nation-country in that geography...

but this is just me.

ddog · Today, 00:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spongegod

Or will it turn into another Iraq? Another Vietnam? America isn't at Cold War levels anymore...they can't even handle Iraq...how will they take down Iran?

In a word... Yes!

The issue is that you're requiring not only taking them down but controlling the situation afterward -- something that we've been able to do in Iraq -- yes, we have been able to control the situation but much like Vietnam, the Democratic/Socialistic/Liberal/Communistic mainstream media have purposefully constructed and routed news to make things seem bad when in fact they really aren't (in the scheme of things). One can look at the amount of positive stories coming out of Iraq as opposed to negative ones... of the DSLC Media reports, virtually none are positive -- yet it is impossible for there NOT to be a positive story going on out there. The DSLC Media picks very carefully what they choose to show in order to discredit Conservatives and Conservative Doctrine. Sorry, but that is the way that it is. Keeping that in mind, did the US beat the living crud out of the Iraqi Military? Absolutely.

How would all of this translate to an Iranian conflict? Again, militarily, the US would destroy them in short order. It is only the DSLC media that would have to be 'dealt' with.

05-05-2008, 13:56 PM	#55 (permalink)
Big K HürGeneral *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 12-11-06 Location: Istanbul Posts: 1,025 Country:	in a battle yes, but in a war, i dont think so. you can not win a war against a nation-country in that geography... but this is just me. __________________ When i say, there will be no effect but i am not willing to remain silent. -Fuzuli

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05-03-2008, 00:43 AM	#48 (permalink)
cape_royds Patron Join Date: 12-13-06 Location: Vancouver Posts: 167 Country:	Actually the point about Hezbollah not being entirely formed of Shia is true. Although it's still a Shi'ite fundamentalist party, its militia includes non-Shia contingents, even some southern Lebanese Christian members. The party has been somewhat successful at broadening its appeal since the 2006 war. Also, Hezbollah is currently allied with the mostly Maronite Christian FPM, under their former opponent General Aoun!

05-03-2008, 17:06 PM	#53 (permalink)
ravi12 Regular Join Date: 03-26-08 Location: where the aliens meet predator Posts: 122 Country:	Just an ignorant question. How many missiles say an yakhont can a ship of different sizes, say, cruiser/ destroyer /aircraft carrier can take before they are temporarily out/ mission incapable/need to go for extensive repairs/ sunk? Would a single hit direct on their propellers make them mission incapable?

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