JAD_333

It always seems like bickering when contending with labels, but I would be interested in knowing what an avowed liberal like yourself considers to be
an 'ultra right wing conservative' American?

We here generally place that label on people who entirely reject the political process, such as aryrian supremacist skinheads, neo-Nazis, religious crazies and so on.

Without naming names do you know of anyone here who fits that description?

A second question, if you don't mind. Why do you call yourself a liberal?
Does it mean you totally disagree with any idea labeled conservative or expressed by someone known as a conservative? And is the converse true? Am I a conservative because I always disagree with liberals? What am I if I agree with conservatives on some things and with liberals on others?

__________________
To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education. (Plato)

xerxes

why are you calling me liberal??? ...

Then that is my ill understanding of that label. BTW, by "here" do u mean in the West, in the United States, in WAB, or in the this world?

I do not equal ultra right wing to neo Nazis. Therefore, we are NOT seeing things eye to eye here. But if I would to follow your translation of the word "ultra right" and equal that to Neonazi and skinheads, then I can safely say that I have yet to see such member in this board, of the people who posts here ofcourse.

You still DO have to tell me, what do you mean by "We here generally place that label on people". As you know we have different nationalities, background and ideas in this very international forum. As you know we do not all follow the same translation that America has for different terms and ideas.

I challenge you to show one single post, where I describe myself as a liberal. If anything I am centrist.

I never totally disagree with anything. I hear all things and try to judge from a fair point of view. If American translation translates that into being liberal: so be it.

Dear JAD, if you care to notice, many people that I listed in the previous post as WAB's sources of technical information, have very diverging political views.
and I agree with most of their political views eventhough they are in complete clash with my own, simply because I am putting myself in their shoes and see things from their views. About yourself, I dont know you very well. I would probably rate you as someone with a balance view purely based on the underline phrase you wrote.

__________________
If we contrast the rapid progress of this mischievous discovery of gunpowder with the slow and laborious advances of reason, science, and the arts of peace, a philosopher, according to his temper, will laugh or weep at the folly of mankind. - Edward Gibbon

ExNavyAmerican

I always say that a centrist is a liberal who doesn't want to admit it.

__________________
"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever."
- Thomas Jefferson

ExNavyAmerican

All this talk about invading Iran... I'm not the type who says that air superiority is all that matters, but it's my opinion that all we need to do is take out their nuclear facilities, military bases, and government centers with surgical strikes and air attacks.

If Bush does it though, the republicans, imp, will lose the election.

xerxes

^^^

Your opinion is what it is: your opinion.

JAD_333

xerxes, you said this...


I meant the U.S. the first time I said 'here' and WAB the second

I didn't realize you had a different interpretation of ultra right conservative. Of course, labels cast a wide net. Generally, ultra right covers groups outside the political process, but one can be forgiven for misusing the term because partisan media often uses it as a kind of insult.

We is the US. IMO, political labels are the same everywhere. Every political world has a center and you go from there in one direction or the other. It doesn't matter what the actual politics are.

Well, you said leftist...again your words
No, that doesn't translate into liberal. It's better. It's open mindedness. And I respect you for it.

It seems you are saying you agree and disagree with their views at the same time, but I suspect that's not what you mean to say, because that would be impossible. I commend you for trying to understand views opposed to your own. It makes you a relatively rare bird.

If I misjudged your political leaning, I apologize. I was impressed with your post and have wanted to ask those questions of an open minded person, which you appear to be. I didn't realize, however, there might be a slight language problem. Cheers

xerxes

Sorry. You are right about the leftist part, I did mention that. But I dont quite see being left as being liberal. I will look the terms up.

Though, I do have a conservative nationalism Iranian view, but I am keeping that in full check.

goodnight

Parihaka

I actually come from a socialist background, I grew up with socialism and still hold many of it's beliefs close to my heart. That doesn't stop me learning from economists like Shek and libertarians like Gunnut, liberals like Astralis and republicans like Bluesman. When you get past the prejudices that we all so dearly harbour, wisdom is found in the strangest places and you might just make a friend or two along the way
Agreed, closed minded extremists are a part of every ideology, whether liberal, libertarian, communist or toalitarian. They simply associate with a distort whatever political force is pre-eminent in their society. The same groups who support neo-nazism would just as happily sign up to AQ in a different environment, the only consistency is their contempt for the hoi polloi, the 'sheeple' as their western liberal versions like to call themYou too matey

__________________
In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.
Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz

JAD_333

I will be interested to hear your prognosis.

But, why? I for one would like to hear your views on Iran today especially with all the talk here and in the media about the possibility of an attack on Iran's nuke facilities...

Goodnight.

Parihaka

Me too. Everyone knows you here Xerxes, while people might yell at you you've got plenty of friends who've got your back.

entropy

Liberals in Europe are what people in here are. Right-wing free-market people.

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If memory serves...

Officer of Engineers

Yeah,

Well it seems that our views are backed by something called facts

"Article II of the NPT

Each non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty undertakes not to receive the transfer from any transferor whatsoever of nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices or of control over such weapons or explosive devices directly, or indirectly; not to manufacture or otherwise acquire nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices; and not to seek or receive any assistance in the manufacture of nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices."

So tell me, how is buying a warhead plan NOT a violation of the NPT?

__________________
Chimo

astralis

parihaka,

mate, i'm a foreign policy hawk, free-trader, fiscal centrist, and social libertarian whom voted for lieberman...and i'm the closest thing to what this board has for a liberal?

i think somewhere out there a few true liberals just gagged on their lunches at my inclusion in their group.

glad to know i spew out some sense now and then.

__________________
Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present.

-Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Parihaka

Sorry, maybe I should have said Julie but you make sooo much more sense than she does

[parihakarunsforcover]

so you were the best I could come up with

Edit: would it help if I called you a classic Liberal, i.e. the international rather than American version?

entropy

timhaughton,

What is wrong with assuming that if Iran has their blueprint, that they will use it?

And please refrain from using logic as taught in philosophy class.