HistoricalDavid

...You're actually doing it full circle. People have provided evidence, FFS. I'm done arguing with you.

timhaughton

Damn straight. You'll have to forgive my lingering respect for international law and human life. Hey, you never know, if I read this board long enough, you'l be able to turn me into a pro war hyper-aggressive neocon.

timhaughton

I came onto this board hoping for some intelligent debate. I think I'll be leaving it sorely disappointed.

I've seen much use of non sequitur arguments, along the lines of "Iran has these blueprints, therefore they must be building a bomb" etc. When I reject them as illogical conclusions, people get upset. That's OK though.

I guess everyone is here to have their views enforced and backed up, not challenged. That's OK too. Perhaps an online support group would be better for you guys instead of a "discussion" forum. That way, your views would never be challenged.

entropy

timhaughton,

Rules of elementary logic, as used in philosophy, are not used in politics. A major mistake that many a leftist does, is trying to sort the world out using this form of logic. While working on small groups of people (friends, a class) it is impossible to use on large groups of people because of the nature of the people. People aren't supposed to wake up and realize that they should go outside and start hugging rainbows and love each other. People are some of the most vile species known to man. Therefore, one should adopt the system to the people, not try to adopt the people to the system.

As for wars and such, if I think about politics, I always apply the so-called "elementary school law" to it. Something that you would do in a similar situation in elementary school is to be done now. It is noticeable how big countries behave themselves like school stereotypes, and it is quite easy to describe the world that way.

As for Iran: if you know that some guy would get baseball bat/ friends / dog to kick your @ss, you should kick his before he does that to you.

__________________
If memory serves...

glyn

__________________
Semper in excretum. Solum profunda variat.

entropy

Sir, you considered to leave WAB?

timhaughton

But conclusions must always follow a premis. Otherwise we're just doing stuff randomly.

Unfortunately that leads to the doctrine of resort to force at will.

entropy

Yes it does. And nothing is wrong with it. You are not proving the existence of God, you are saving your skin.

timhaughton

If I do, I'm taking my ball with me.

I love debate, as long as there's a respect for people's right to completely disagree with you without resorting to childish personal attacks.

I know how you feel.

timhaughton

Just to clarify, you position is: Everyone can attack whoever they want, whenever they want. And cos our army is bigger, shut your pie hole.

Hope I summed it up

entropy

Why is it so that any theory that differs from "man is inherently good and his job is to hug the rainbow and love everyone" comes down to that?

My position is:

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Officer of Engineers

I don't see a conviction anywhere and ALL P5 have vetoed UNSCR concerning terrorism. Dafur comes to mind.


Oh I don't know ... how about the fact that Al Qeida did not exist until LONG AFTER the Soviets left Afghanistan? And Bin Laden is a known liar. He has said that he had repulsed a Soviet brigade when the truth was he ran with his tail between his leg. CIA funds were directly controlled by Zia and Zia didn't need an idiotic lackey from Saudi Arabia to do his work.

You want more? The Mujahadeen was NOT the Taliban nor Al Qeida. Those two groups came long after the Soviets went bye bye and the Americans left Afghanistan high and dry.

You're joking me!

The Iranian Holocaust Conference

You're the one making the claim. You're the one needing to back it up.

__________________
Chimo

Officer of Engineers

The Iranians bought a WARHEAD blueprint.

Knowing is NOT the same proving and we HAVE PROVED Iran has a nuclear weapons program in violation of the NPT.

Again, you care to define that violation? You have been dancing around without stating a single fact. I want you to cite the legallity so that I can present the arguements against it. In other words, put up or shut up.

timhaughton

It's just a name. Bin Laden's Arab Legion was commisioned by western intelligence agencies:

Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians. Inexplicably, and with disastrous consequences, it never appears to have occurred to Washington that once Russia was out of the way, Bin Laden's organisation would turn its attention to the west.

Read above to see what Al-Qaida means, and where it came from.

glyn