robains

So invading and declaring a democratic country didn't seem to make matters any better -- actually seems to have made matters much worse.

Personally I would just rather we figure out how to avoid that region completely. Is it avoidable? Basically you have a region who's only real resource is oil (aka energy) -- is the cost of this energy really worth it?

Can we have religions that aren't "open to interpretation"? Is religion just the excuse, if so why? What benefit would someone have to use religion this way? Or, is it just that humans are so arrogant and unbelievably stupid that they can only justify existance by killing each other?

I look at the world and feel sorrow, realizing that is it very unlikely the human race will survive and expand beyond this planet (which might be a good thing as we clearly are not capable nor worthy of such endevours). Our irresponsible use of oil as an energy (and all that is related around it) source will ultimately extinguish the human race by about 2050 anyway (we've successfully accelerated global warming) so one way or the other it's unlikely the human race will survive much longer.

What is the solution? Time is clearly NOT on our side.

What is most depressing? There is clearly some potential in the human race, but that potential is such a small minority that it is unlikely they'll survive the ignorance and stupidity of the majority.

The planet is not as fragile as we like to believe it is, but as history has shown, the planet is very capable of extinquishing most of it's life and restarting a new. The daily distractions of Iran, Iraq, Korea, etc. etc. are just yet more confirmations that we'll never learn from our mistakes.

This is not a discussion about Global warming, if you choose not to believe it then you clearly don't subscribe to logic and physics.

1. Data, tons of data to demonstrate the increase in the earths temp 3.8 degree increase is enough to wipe out most of the human race, 5 degrees to complete extinguish and we've successfully accelerated this from happening over hunders of thousands of years to just a hundred years.

2. No rocket science involve, you extract energy from the ground and convert it and dump it into the atmosphere where is doesn't just magically "disappear", do this 24/7 for 100 years while increasing the volume yearly into a finite space (yes the atmosphere is finite) and what do you get? Tell ya what, if you don't believe this, go close your garage door, turn on your car and sit in it for a while to see how long you live.

Rob.

Parihaka

Really? How do you figure?

__________________
In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.
Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz

Shek

Rob,

If Islam isn't "open to interpretation," then can you explain to me why there are so many sects of Islam, as well as multiple schools of jurisprudence within each sect. Seems like a religion that is ripe to many forms of interpretation.

__________________
"So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

Shek

Rob,

Please join this discussion about global warming. Using logic and the scientific method, you can explain the causation of global warming, which is much different than mere correlation. I don't claim any expertise in the natural sciences, but I am well versed relative to the average bear on statistics, and so omitted variables and spurious correlation does concern me, as does statistical significance. So, if you can separate out for me how much of global warming is due to climate change, how much is due to solar activity, and how much is due to humans. Remember, causation, not just correlation.

Lastly, with your car example, I get the impression that you are claiming that we are all going to die of carbon monoxide poisoning. I didn't know that CO levels in the environment were such a problem!

Ray

What's the opinion on this?

Detente with Tehran?*-*Editorials/Op-Ed*-*The Washington Times, America's Newspaper

__________________


"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA

robains

Shek,

Where did I mention Islam? Also, it was a question not a statement. But yes the answer is all religions appear to be "open to interpretation" and that seems to be a catalyst for fundamentalism/extremists be it Christian, Islam, you pick your religion-of-day.

The car example was a simple demonstration of the physics of gases in a finite space. Our atmosphere has a finite volume that fluctuates to some degree but if you dump enough mis-managed energy by-products into it you change it's properties.

The global warming should not be a debate of exact cause because there are other factors that influence the situation (yes I agree). However, to ignore that we've successfuly pushed average climate temps up over 1 degree in a matter of 100 years combined with the fact that it has rapidly accelerated since about 1950 it is reasonable to diagnose a problem with no absolute answer by removing the variables one step at a time.

If your PC crashes, do you try to debug machine code to determine exactly why it crashed?? No, that is a time consuming process for which the human race doesn't have the time available. You start by removing the variables to the equation and start with the most obvious variables our 24/7 ever increasing crude oil waste products -- there is absolutely no reason we can't be responsible with our energy waste other than our sheer laziness and greed.

You realize how much of an impact just offering better government incentives for alternate energy vehicles/homes would do? Why is this not being done in a significant manner (real incentives)?

All homes should come with solar power systems as standard government requirement.

Yes it costs more, yes you don't get the same per Kwh efficiency, but you also don't turn the planet into a sauna (or at least don't contribute which is really the key). At what point do people get it?

The "Debate of global warming" is really just for those selfish people that don't want to be responsible - the excuse makers in life. Great, lets debate ourselves to death and when no one is left to figure it out we can move on -- is that the grand plan? Why not start with basic logic and what we know now and start eliminating variables.

Small changes when done in mass, make significant change as a whole and really doesn't significantly reduce our quality of life.

Rob.

Bluesman

Total troll.

Take a look at his other two posts. This is a guy that the WAB can do without, in my humble non-Mod opinion.

Just sayin'.

__________________
"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell

JMH

What do you want to discuss? The morality of man? Religion? Global warming? War in the Middle East? To try to tie these three topics together into one thread leads to an impossibly large discussion, so here are some responses:

Morality of Man?
Men are evil from birth and have been so since Adam and Eve where expelled from the Garden of Eden. That is why men never learn from history and continually kill and harm each other. In this imperfect world, if you on a personal level and nations on a national level are not willing to confront evil both in violent (war and fighting) and non-violent ways when necessary than evil people and nations will conquer and destroy you.

Religion has been and is the cults, that define cultures and form the mores and values of cultures, be it a tribal religion that governs the behaviour of tribe in the remotest areas of the earth, a highly organized religion such as Catholicism or incredibly violent repressive religions such as Islam (as represented by Sharia Law and Wabbiasam)Whatever your religion, religion brings order to society (look at the moral collapse of the morally bankrupt socialist, Nazi and Communist European countries to see examples of countries who try to outlaw or minimize religion). Consequently, the power of religion can and has and is used to control and dominate people and nations. The USA is unique among nations in that although its government and law is heavily influenced by Christianity, it's people are allowed to determine their own religion and this to some extent has spread through the America's and to Europe, although it is now threatened by the rise of materialism, Socialism, Atheism and Islam.

Global Warming? Scientific and Political hype, there is nothing man can do to stop global warming anyway, the greatest scientific minds devise weapons to kill and maim, but humans still do not have any control over the weather, ocean currents, Teutonic plates, magma and the earth's climate cycles. Liberals can't have it both ways, first the world population is to large so they support killing babies with abortion to control the world's population and now that the earth is starting a natural cycle of global warming that would correct the imbalances created by humans than these liberals complain, and moan about how many millions of poor souls this "Global Warming" is going to kill. It would be far better to concentrate on more basic things, such as a replacement of fossil fuel with a clean and renewable energy, preservation of fresh air, fresh water and a sustainable food supply. The earth's climate will change and the poor will suffer horribly and the rich will survive and become richer than they were when it started just like what happens in most world disasters.

War in the Middle East:
The first human wars were fought in the Middle East and the last human war will end in the Middle East. The Human race started in the Middle East, consequently it should not be any surprise that the Middle East is the center and source of human wars. What is different now, is technologically advanced economies use fossil fuel, so the greed to control and buy/sell Oil from the Middle East has only intensified the wars that have always troubled the Middle East. Also, mankind now has weapons that can destroy entire countries in minutes, which makes war far more dangerous than it has ever been in known human history. The only time the Middle East has been relatively peaceful is when it has been occupied under control of an empire (Persian, Greek, Mongol, Ottoman, French/British). In addition to this, the long running Israeli-Arab/Muslim blood feud continues with the ancestors of the illegitimate sons of Abraham (ie Muslims) who are cursed to fight each other and all other nations until the end of days when they will be destroyed (along with the most of the population of the world) in the final battle, near Armageddon.

Shek

JMH,
I think he is taking the thread too literally, as he is avoiding discussing Iran and Iraq

Shek

Rob,

If my computer crashes, I just throw it in the trash and buy a new one on sale.

Parihaka

I got in first and I'd still like an answer to my question.

Julie

gunnut

Care to explain "Mars warming?"

Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says

Look to Mars for the truth on global warming

Mars Is Warming, NASA Scientists Report - by James M. Taylor - The Heartland Institute

Global warming hits Mars | The Daily Telegraph

__________________
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

Bluesman

Hummers. Gotta be the Hummers down here on Earth.