Bluesman

You're seeing it through the eyes of a rational actor, and as such, you'd be right, and that would be a good move. That's not what Iran is, though.

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"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell

Parihaka

I too made the assumption that it was tit-for-tat for the Americans taking the undercover Sepah-e Pasdaran Colonel, presumably there to supply the non-existant Iranian support for the irhabis.
The Iranian foreign office denies there is any connection, but as we both know this is a Sepah-e Pasdaran operation, and they seem to be taking over if not already in full control. I think the only reason the supreme council and westernised institutions still exist there is as a smokescreen to confuse the west.
I don't however hold with the idea that because the US took the Sepah-e Pasdaran Colonel and his fellow spies, that therefore the west is hypocritical in being outraged at the British soldiers and sailors arrests.

As for my contempt for the loonie lefties, I have equal contempt for the extreme right, it's simply the loonie left have more control over the media at the moment. As I say, where is the outrage in our press, or don't these soldiers and sailors count?

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In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.
Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz

YellowFever

It did help.

Thanks.

And I'm sorry I kinda jumped all over you.

__________________
...If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space!

YellowFever

[quote=glyn;360351]
LoL....after reading your posts for the past few months, I came to realize that we are sorta, kinda, maybe, somewhat, even likely kindred spirits on many issues.

And I'm also sorry I also sorta kinda jumped all over you way back when, too.

Peace!

Trooth

It is for their own people. It is all part of an exercise in "demonstrating" a the harsh "facts" to the people of Iran, to help prepare them for the hardships that may lay ahead. Essentially what Iran is orchestrating is:-

1) That the west is actively oppressing Iran. They have heard how the west wants to stop Iran developing technically, to provide for its own energy needs and to be able to diversify away from oil and towards a peaceful nuclear programme.
2) That the west would not trust it with nuclear weapons. Of course Tehran has no intention of building any but to the average Iranian why should they not be able to defend themselves? All things being equal (which they are not) it's a reasonable question.
3) That the great enemy of Iran is on the border (US/UK in Iraq) that the US has labelled Iran an enemy and named its allies (Axis of Evil) and invaded one of those allies (Iraq).
4) That Iran must be strong (but of course civilised) in its steadfast defence of its soverignty by keeping its borders completely secure - by detaining armed foreign military personnel that "clearly" were spying or otherwise up to no good in its waters.
5) That if proof of 4 was needed here it is - the foriegn invaders themselves say that were indeed in Iranian waters. They have been well treated of course, because Tehran is civilised and peaceful.

So if Tehran is doing well with 4 ("We got them"), and 3 is largely self evident, then the west is wrong about 1. But, on reflection, Iranian's need a nuclear deterrant so maybe 2 is reasonable and something worth fighting for. Everyone is against them. The West has brought this on itself.

etc.

Now, if the RAF was to bomb some military targets, it would only "prove" Tehran right. It would not make the Iranians question the detaining of the sailors/marines, nor the nuclear programme. Hence why it is currently being done on a diplomatic basis.

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The world as it should be at surrealscoop.blogspot.com

smilingassassin

I've always liked that idea, sink their ships in harbour inflicting humiliation upon the enemy and showing him he is not imune from our intentions even in his own harbours. Not sure how secure a sufacing boomer would be in the Persian gulf but that would also send a signal.

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Facts to a liberal is like Kryptonite to Superman.

-- Larry Elder

Parihaka

So the British shouldn't do anything because, well, the Iranians might not like it?

Danielk

You really believe the nuclear programme is for peacefull purposes? Iran supports terrorists, full stop.

And you believe the briton's were in iranian waters? They showed a GPS map that they were in Iraq waters...

The RAF has every right to bomb iranian targets or get the soldiers back if iran doesent want to give them back.

Dont let the Iranian propaganda fool you sir.

gunnut

Don't they know that if Iraq develops in a peaceful manner, we would pack up and leave? We don't want to be there. We're there because it's an unstable region. We don't like unstable regions. That's why we're there.

Iran is free to acquire whatever conventional weapons it wants and nuclear plants too, just don't scream about killing jews everyday.

A stable region with no one screaming about wiping someone else off the map is all we ask.

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"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

SRB

Territorial waters are complicated stuff in world. I will point out Croatia-Slovenia problem territorial water disputation this type of problem is common at states which are in some world gulf.
GPS isnt any proof it could trickery. If some other country watch that Persian gulf in that time (and it isnt UK, US or China) and it have pictures of position of UK boat than we could judge. Blair lied many time in his rule.

BUT IT IS IRRELEVANT WERE BOAT WAS. IRAN NEED TO LET THOSE GUYS BECAUSE THEY WERENT ON SOME SECRET MISSION AND THEZ WERENT THREAT TO IRAN SECURITY.
AND AGAIN IRAN NEVER SAD THAT THERE IS POSSIBILITY THAT IRAN NAVY MADE MISTAKE? Did they done any investigating? NO. Did they give any evidence that UK boat was in their waters? NO.
They know who they hunt which say me that they plan operation and because that and two NO I belive that UK telling the truth.

And what about corruption in Iran? It seem that A-jad dont do nothing about that. He just talk about wiping Israel for map and about Iran nuclear program and he win election on anti-corruption program.
CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF DEMAGOGY

YellowFever

Tigger.....

You know I agree with you concerning the Royal Marines held hostage is Iran.

But the more and more I hear the sound bites coming out of London, the more and more I'm losing faith in you guys.

By the way, going off at a tangent, how well is the Royal Navy equipped to use military force against Iran if the situation deterioriates further?

I'm not up to speed on the Royal Navy.....

Commando

totally agree with you mate

Ray

And Limpet mines!

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"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA

Ray

Parihaka,

Have faith in the British.

I know they are upsetting the gung ho types.

Remember the British did not rule more than half the world because they were the gung ho hell for leather types.

They will have their cake and eat it.

Give them time.

JMH

What do you know of Afghanistan? Have you ever been to Afghanistan? Have you ever seen first hand, the ravaged, destroyed country of Afghanistan?
Have you walked through the streets of Kabul? Have you seen Kandahar? Have you seen the Pakistani-Afghan border region? Do you have any idea what you are talking about?
Have you spoken to any real Afghan citizens, the poor people who desperately try to survive in the face unimaginable odds, that hardly anyone in the west can comprehend? Have you worked with or done anything to help any Afghan person in Afghanistan?

I have and I have seen and see Afghanistan far more clearly than you do and ever could care to see.

The same poison of Sharia law that further devastated Afghanistan after the terrible Soviet Occupation of Afghanistan is the same law that the Iranian Government uses to suppress the Iranian people. If you could see the children in Afghanistan with their eager hope, and hunger for education than you would see the key to the defeat of the Islamic Fascists.
These Islamic Fascists use terror forces such as the Taliban, Revolutionary Guard, Hamas and other terror groups’ throughout the world (Eritrea, Ethiopia, Sudan, Somalia, Indonesia, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Thailand, Philippines, Lebanon, Gaza Strip, Syria, Saudia Arabia etc.) to spread their terror, enforced under the code of Sharia Law. Education, freedom, democracy and economic empowerment of oppressed people are the best ways to defeat the Islamic Fascists.