xerxes

NO I think he was rather there as an observant, but he died early in the war. so it was when the revolution fever was high, rather then later when jelousy and intrigue dominated the arena. He was a revolutionary, I doubt he had a problem with the Guards, who were allbeit an insignificant force back then.

Here it is from the Iranian government website ...

Dr. Chamran

Actually i stand correct his Ph.D. was in electronics and plasma physics, not nuclear engineering

__________________
If we contrast the rapid progress of this mischievous discovery of gunpowder with the slow and laborious advances of reason, science, and the arts of peace, a philosopher, according to his temper, will laugh or weep at the folly of mankind. - Edward Gibbon

Lunatock

And you'd even be willing to kneel and literally kiss Ahmadinejad's ass?

Ray

It happens.

India's Mr Singh of RAW, who was under RAW surveillance since his cover apparently had been broken, also vanished mysteriously to the US!

Today, he is a different man with a different identity and with a different face, residing in the US!

It happens!

__________________


"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA

TheChosenOne

A round of shots for all on me. HIP HIP HOORAY! I like posting this hip hip hooray thing, that's twice today :D.

Blademaster

You don't have to kiss someone's ass to be patriotic. He could have been patriotic by speaking out and taking up a struggle. But he took the cowardly way out by defecting to America that is recognised as an enemy of his own country. I may not agree with Iran's policies but I will never think of him as a hero, not even if he helps America win. You can never trust a man who would betray his country and his comrades. He had soldiers looking up to him and following his orders.

He is a Benedict Arnold. Enough said.

xerxes

Are you talking to me ....

ExNavyAmerican

I agree with you in principle, blade. But, me being a nationalist, if he has information that would be useful to us then more power to him. Assuming this is true though, I would never have respect for him. Because me being a nationalist and all, I have no respect for those who do not love their country. Also, as you said: if he is indeed a traitor, than we can never trust him. Yeah, I defitiely agree with you.

__________________
"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever."
- Thomas Jefferson

ExNavyAmerican

–Posted by lunatok to xerxes

–Posted by xerxes: response to lunatok

As much as it pains me to say it: I agree with xerxes on this one. This guy is a traitor by my standards, and if I were the Iranians, as soon as I got him back: I'd drop him down a hole where no one will ever here from him again. But, as long as he helps us, we will have a future obligation to us. I hate leeches...

Parihaka

To me it depends on the extent. What of those Germans who assisted Jews and hid them and helped them flee Nazi control? At what point does humanity overwhelm Nationalism, or is Nationalism Uber Alles?
This particular chap may have seen and heard of things so horrific that getting his family away from it is more important than his belief in his country.

Blademaster

Parihaka,

That may work for a mere soldier, a common man who had no power. But this was a general. He had power. He had soldiers who followed him. He could have done something. But he took the easy way out, the cowardly way out.

xerxes

He is a traitor to his country, because he deserted and now will make damage to Iran's national security. That is fully independent of the fact that one might be pro-Islamic regime or pro-Shah regime. Had he took his troops and attempted a coup d'etat, I would have respected him. But selling critical information to West (the enemy) is the work of coward and not a patriot. The samegoes for General Oveissi of the Shah regime, who instead of helping the shah's last Imperial government, he fled to Paris. He is a traitor also.

As far as your NSDAP analogy goes, I will say that the work of Beck, Count von Stauffenberg and Canaris deserves applause and they are no traitors. Why? because they did not fled Germany to Great Britian to sell its secret, rather that they stayed in their position, through light and dark, and helped to overthrow Hitler, allbeit failed. There is difference between patriot that tries an unconsititutional act for the better service of the Fatherland, then a coward who flees his Fatherland at the time of crisis to sell information.

Ofcourse, that is assuming he actually defected. He could have been abducted or anything else.

Parihaka

Then so was Rouhollah Mousavi Khomeini, who fled to Paris instead of fighting the Shah.

xerxes

Mr Parihaka, I am neither a khomeinist nor an islamist. But regardless, I could be wrong but Khomeini was exiled to Iraq by the Shah, and then inturn he was exiled to Paris by Saddam at the request of the Shah. and He hated Saddam for exileing him from Najaf.

These aside, we are talking about military officers taken sword to protect the nation, not religious figures. Dont you agree??

Parihaka

We'll Khomeini still had the choice to fight and die within Iran, and a religious figure is also a political figure within Islam as Islam seeks to dominate politics,
but yes we are talking about military officers and we've strayed a long way from my original question "At what point does humanity overwhelm Nationalism, or is Nationalism Uber Alles?" I'm guessing your point or line would be the military?

xerxes

I am not sure I understand the question correctly. Nationalism should NOT be the end of everything, and too much of is destructive. As far as at what point does humanity overwhelm Nationalism. I honestly dont know. In case of 2003 Iraq invasion, it was Nationalism that overwhelmed the humanity, while equally incase of Iran nuclear crisis, it is Nationalism that overwhelms logic and reason.

As far as Iranian military are concerned, I withhold the military to stay uncorrupted and to serve the best intrest of the nation and to give their lives if nessacery. As far as Iranian religous figures are concerned, I honestly care not. They are politicians just like those serving in the Congress. One man slogan for Freedom, is another man's slogan for Islam. They are diverging ideologies, however they are the tools of politicans. But amidst all these, I expect the military to be remained truth to its oath and to serve the nation and to serve those corrupt politicans. Because that is the case in all nations, and if our military doesnt serve the corrupt cause of our corrupt politicans, then we are one step behind in the world.

Regardless of any of these, that officer act was that of high treason. That is my opinion.