Parihaka

The monotony of these same events occuring time and time again through history is becoming depressing.

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In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.
Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz

Ray

The Ninja turtle is getting too stupid and archaic in thoughts.

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"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA

Amled

So depressingly true.

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When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow. - Anais Nin

Tronic

nah people... at the end, i'm sure the Iranian people will be victorious....

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Nabha Sparasham Deeptam
-Touch The Sky With Glory

Amled

That’s a pretty broad statement my friend.
What segment of the Iranian people do you see as coming out victorious?
The theocrats as represented by Ahmadinejad and his cronies who are inspired by their iconic saint, the late; and unlamented proponent of bestiality and paedophilia, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini. Or the increasingly hounded and persecuted segment that wish to effectuate a more liberal and democratic way of life in Iran?
Right now the former seems to have more wind in the sails.

Ray

Iranian people will surely come out victorious.

All power to them.

But surely not the theocratic mish mash that rules Iran as of date.

The Shias are the more progressive of the Islamic people and more pragmatic. They have Ijtihad as a tenet, but not the Sunnis.

The Mad Mullahs are having their two minutes worth of glory and defiance in the name of Allah, but all that will fade when God's truth dawns on these mad men that hold Iran in hostage to their mad ways.

Amled

Ray, I applaud your faith in that reason and sanity will be win out in Iran, even though I don’t share your optimistic hopes.
I sincerely hope that you are correct and I am wrong, but I feel that course laid out by Ahmadinejad and the Mad Mullahs will be dominant; at least for the foreseeable future.
Don’t forget that; and here I’ll give them the benefit of a doubt, that they are following the dictates of their God and beliefs as they see it.
A viewpoint that makes them very dangerous indeed, far more so then AQ and Usama in the long run, as they will have the resources and manpower of an entire nation state behind them. This especially if they manage to stifle the nascent dissent that is present in segments of the Iranian population, maybe the reason for the crackdown underway, which is referred to in this thread.
Don’t forget Ray, that the USSR and the dogmatic belief system it had as its core lasted for nigh on to 80 years.
This in spite of the fact that the belief system was flawed and in the long course unworkable, yet the powers-that-were in the old USSR clung to power and in their wake were the cause of untold misery.
Whereas in Iran we are dealing with a belief that has at its core not just a political belief but one founded in religion, therefore of much more potency.

Tronic

If the Iranian people are suppressed to a point where they loose their voice, then I will support an American attack on Iran to topple the Mullahs... I pray that the Iranian people do rise against the Mullahs and bring power to the people... if they don't then America should defenitely attack.... but I very much doubt America will attack Iran for those reasons... America talks about spreading democracy but supports dictators and very rarely helps out the oppressed....

highsea

Yeah, It's all a smokescreen. We are secretly trying to establish dictatorships all around the world so we can oppress the poor more effectively.

We will only be happy when all the world's poor people are eating Alpo and Ralston Purina has the world monopoly on 'poor people food'.

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My baby called me up. She said- Why don't you ever take me out? Pick me up in your brand new car....You shake the short change from the old fruit jar...

Amled

Tell me Tronic does it really matters why the US brings down a tyrannical regime?
Be it out of enlightened self interest or for phrases like democracy, freedom and the like?
It may be that some of the powers-that-be in Washington had ulterior motives in bringing about regime change in Iraq. I don’t know, as a layman sitting in an apartment in Denmark I’m not privy to what goes on behind closed doors on the Potomac.
But one thing that I am sure of; and call me naive, that is the American servicemen who make up the bulk of the forces presently there, and are incurring the greatest losses aren’t doing it for Corporate America.
You just have to read the what is written on this board and others, hear what say and mean publicly and privately to understand that many of them do believe intensely in those seemingly trite phrases freedom, democracy and the like.
And if; and we can only hope not, it comes to hostilities with Iran it will be the same.

Tronic

If a country doesn't help the oppressed; that means it goes against them??? lol... like Bush's statement, "If you're not with us, you're against us."

I said, America doesn care about the oppressed... I didn't say that America loves going around the world, oppressing people on purpose... and re: dictators... dictators are supported if they fit a national interest and most times they do... so if they oppress their own people or love them, it does not matter......

I was just trying to say that pray that the Mullahs do something very wrong, like publicly build nukes and declare war on America... cuz something like that is what will get the Mullahs toppled... Not American affection for the Iranian people... I'm not blaming America... every country in the world works for its own national interest...

Amled

The Iranian leadership has to date bent over backwards to dissuade everyone that they are aiming to produce nuclear weapons. So I don’t think we have to worry about them going public with their intentions. I doubt seriously that they will ever go public with such an announcement until they were able to unveil a working weaponised device.
In that event the broad population would probably fall in behind them, as happened in India and Pakistan when they unveiled theirs. All they would have to do would be proclaim them “purely defensive weapons”.
A disclaimer you can believe or not.
I choose not to!

Ray

I agree it will take time for the Iranian people to realise the folly of their Mullah leaders.

The Iranian people are not stupid.

It is just that they have had a very turbulent history and that turbulence is continuing with this leadership that they have.

Amled

I agree with you on that 100%.
They; and thereby Iran, probably have the greates potential of any nation in the ME to become the dominant power in that region.
The question therefor arises, will Ahmadinejad (or an equally uncompromising radical sucessor) together with the Mad Mullahs be in power when that happens?

Tronic

one question... its not related to this issue... but just out of curiosity, does anyone know why and how Iran was named Iran... I think Persia was a much more culturally powerful civilization and they should've hanged on with the name Persia.... I don't know how the name "Iran" came about... just out of curiosity...