What legal reasons do we have to bomb/invade Iran? - Page 11

gunnut · 09-07-2006, 22:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIKEMAN

The right to go to war first is only in case of no way of avoiding an attack by the other side first.

That requires perfect information. Tell me, who do you trust to provide that perfect information?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIKEMAN

Iran certainly does not threaten the US and given its current nuclear capabilities its screams against Israel are merely bluster.

Care to wager your life on that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIKEMAN

I think you underestimate the commitment many nations in the world have to treaties, agreements, international codes of behavior.

Which is as long as it suits their interest. We, in fact, adhere to treaties that do not benefit us far more than any other nations on this earth. Remember the Kyoto protocol? You must remember. The one we refused to sign and Bush caused global warming? None of the signatory nations came close to the treaty's goals. In fact, Spain and a few others have polluted more (by percentage) since signing the treaty, than we have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIKEMAN

America may like to think itself above all this but it does not get too many allies, other than the ones we hire such as Poland, Ukraine, Estonia, and Mongolia.

Our allies are bought and sold. Just like any other nations' allies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIKEMAN

The history of the world has to be seen as a move towards greater justice , less war etc. We seem to go backwards as much as forwards at times but we have to believe in it.

This world is 100 times safer than 100 years ago when there was not a super power like the US to enforce the peace. Fewer people (by percentage) die today due to warfare than 100 years ago. More people have access to better living conditions unimaginable just a few decades ago. You really need to look at history with a more analytical eye than emotional response to today's 24/7 imagery on the TV and internet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIKEMAN

Britain and France did declare war on Germany when it invaded Poland, unlike the USA.

Where were they when Germany invaded Czechoslovakia? How many people died in WW2? What if I tell you we could have stopped WW2 from ever happening if we invaded Germany in 1935, at the cost of a few hundred thousand lives, would you do it?

buisness man · 09-07-2006, 22:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

Julie,

Beady eye or not, he is always smiling as if he has no care in the world!

That's the only good thing I like about him - his smiling all the time.

and the orgin of a smile need not be pleasant!

That's when I don't like his smile!

Hes smilling because hes a smart a..

Anon · 09-07-2006, 22:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnut

This world is 100 times safer than 100 years ago when there was not a super power like the US to enforce the peace. Fewer people (by percentage) die today due to warfare than 100 years ago.

I don't buy that dude.

More people have died in the last 100 years from war then at any point in the history of man, and maybe even COMBINED.

The death toll in the last 10 years alone from war and war related causes(ie war /violence induced famine- such as was the case in Somalia in 1993) is well into the millions...maybe tens of millions.

buisness man · 09-07-2006, 22:49 PM

Let his people overfrow him ha ha

gunnut · 09-07-2006, 23:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

I don't buy that dude.

More people have died in the last 100 years from war then at any point in the history of man, and maybe even COMBINED.

The death toll in the last 10 years alone from war and war related causes(ie war /violence induced famine- such as was the case in Somalia in 1993) is well into the millions...maybe tens of millions.

But our population has exploded over the last 100 years. It's hard to get that many people into war over a large area 100 years ago. It's easy to get millions involved today.

I believe the number of dead today as a percentage of total population is lower than 100 years ago when there weren't that many people around. I remember the colonel mentioned something about a rebellion in China 1 or 2 centuries ago that killed an obscene number of people. China didn't have nearely the population back then as it does today.

Besides, any natural disaster 100 years ago kill way more as a percentage, even straight up numbers, than today. Katrina killed over 1000 people. There was a storm (unnamed) early in the 20th century that hit Galvaston and kill over 10,000.

texasjohn · 09-07-2006, 23:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

Ummm, the Israeli bombing campaign was anything but massive, and it obviously was not sustained.

Maybe. Not my problem though.

What, cause you say so? There is no 'right' to go to war. If the national interest demands it, then it's done...regardless of the consequences.

That is sort of the entire point...yes? To settle matters that law/treaty/diplomacy cannot.

I say it does.

Sort of like Hitlers screams against the jews were just bluster in 1936?

Ummm...

How do you know what commitment they have?

You don't.

They are free to try to stop us if they don't like what we do....just as we are free to try and stop others that do what we do not like.

I would suggest they first start with Darfur though. And Somalia. And any of a dozen other shiit-holes where people are being murdered by their gov'ts in droves.

When it suits us we are...just like EVERYONE ELSE.

Do you know any polish soldiers? Estonians? Mongolians? Ever served in any military anywhere to know what motivates soldiers?

Ever lived in Poland, Estonia, or Mongolia to know what motivates them to act as they do?

Or are you just talking out of your asss some more?

The FACT is that Poland, Estonia, and Mongolia are participants in the GWOT because their leaders believe it serves their interstests. When it doesn't, they'll pull out. As long as it does, they'll stay in the fight.

Why? Cause you say so? Despite the fact that is a TOTALLY erroneous view that is utterly unsupported by empiracal observation?

Believe in what? Utopia?

No thanx Neville.

And then sat and did NOTHING (Perhaps you've heard of the Sitskrieg?) as Germany and the SU gobbled up poland and murdered (eventually) millions of Poles.

Besides, didn't you just say the US should mind it's business? In that case we did...look how that turned out. A total disaster.

Your arguments suck. You seem to be just another 'blame america first' leftist.

I eat those for breakfast. (usually before a day of exploiting defenseless 3d world minorities for my own personal gain.)

It cracks me up that someone that voluntarilly lives in a tyranny ridden cess-pool like Chicago thinks that he should be preaching to anyone.

Simple question. Are you an "out of work" white supremist? You sure sound like one. Oh yeah, the Israelis killed thousand or more civilians - "not my problem"... go ahead and burp your pot belly - sorry you are an idiot!

Let me explain: This is the kind of dumbass logic I hear when there are a bunch of hillbillys standing around a BBQ drinking beer.

" I say we turn the whole godamn middle East into a glass bowl ( burp)".

" hell yeah, we done got us an army - why don't we just whup their ass and take their oil?(belch)"

" Man wouln't it be fun to watch Baghdad / Tehran / all them Stans glow?"

( Yeah the radiation cloud that spreads out over the planet will also kill your sorry ass too !!)

The entire approach is Bevis and Butthead and has no logic.

NO - I'm NOT talking about appeasement. But let us not get lied to 2 times in a row... about WMD crock. " you will never fool me again..."

Human life has value no matter what culture they are from.. get that through your thick skull.

America is not a "whites only". You lost the civil war - get over it. Thousands of women and kids dying - " not your problem" - what if they were yours? Do you get my point?

Anon · 09-08-2006, 00:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texasjohn

Simple question. Are you an "out of work" white supremist? You sure sound like one. Oh yeah, the Israelis killed thousand or more civilians - not my problem... go ahead and burp your pot belly - sorry you are an idiot!

It is not my place to shed tears for the enemies of my nation.

That's what the 'educated' dueche bags of the world are for.

Got it Tex?

"Moderation in war is imbecility"
~Admiral John Fisher

buisness man · 09-08-2006, 00:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texasjohn

Simple question. Are you an "out of work" white supremist? You sure sound like one. Oh yeah, the Israelis killed thousand or more civilians - not my problem... go ahead and burp your pot belly - sorry you are an idiot!

My freind you got to stop drinking so much coola

just vjokeing, israel was getting 300 missiles fired at them a day if that was happening to america i think they would have leveled the place.

**Parihaka** · 09-08-2006, 00:07 AM

Beer from the fridge, comfy seat, cheetos, suglasses, yep, I'm ready....

Anon · 09-08-2006, 00:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parihaka

Beer from the fridge, comfy seat, cheetos, suglasses, yep, I'm ready....

This nit wit does not want any of me.

<---------------- Pounding shoe on podium

I WILL BURY YOU!!!

(after i go watch a movie with my argentinian princessa)

buisness man · 09-08-2006, 00:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

It is not my place to shed tears for the enemies of my nation.

That's what 'educated' dueche bags like you are for.

Got it Tex?

"Moderation in war is imbecility"
~Admiral John Fisher

The guy who quoted you doesnt understand its war people die in wars,also you cant fight a slow gorila war to reduce civilian casulties when a country is fireing 3oo rockets a day on your civilian population you got to stop them as quick as possible,after the fighting stoped israel said this is lebanons last chance so if hesbalah started fireing rockets again israel might have been planning to nuke them.

dalem · 09-08-2006, 00:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buisness man

The guy who quoted you doesnt understand its war people die in wars,also you cant fight a slow gorila war to reduce civilian casulties when a country is fireing 3oo rockets a day on your civilian population you got to stop them as quick as possible,after the fighting stoped israel said this is lebanons last chance so if hesbalah started fireing rockets again israel might have been planning to nuke them.

Who are you to say that someone doesn't understand people die in wars?

-dale

buisness man · 09-08-2006, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalem

Who are you to say that someone doesn't understand people die in wars?

-dale

Good comeback

Anon · 09-08-2006, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalem

Who are you to say that someone doesn't understand people die in wars?

-dale

It seems pretty clear Tex has a problem with that, the most basic tenet of warfare. I believe the 'Bidness man' was merely pointing it out...of course that is TOTALLY beyond his right to opine on!!!

The Sniper Doctrine: If you as leader of country X believe that i, leader of the uber powerful Country Y, will slaughter your entire population for a major transgression(such as pursuing nukes and babbling extremely inflammatory rhetoric incessantly), you are unlikely to ever commit any major transgression against me, and if you do, well then you were asking for it...and i shall shed no tears for you.

That is my view wrt such matters, it surprises me that a Texan of all people does not see the unquestionable logic in such a philosophy. Another fancy catchphrase for this radical new philosophy of mine is "Deterance".

The problem with Iran is that they don't believe we'd "get midievil on his ass," so there is no deterrance value...

Someone has to be the first example in order that all others may learn. Iran is as good a choice as anyone. Hell, even Mickey Mouse hates their fukking guts.

Most popular bumper sticker in America in 1979-80.

Of course instead of stopping to ponder what the hell i'm talking about good ole' Tex just jumped right in with the ..."are you an out of work white supremacist".... nonsense.

Ah yes, Hitler ad Reductum/reductum ad Hitlerum at it's lazy best.

dalem · 09-08-2006, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buisness man

Good comeback

Why don't you answer my question then?

-dale

09-08-2006, 00:07 AM	#159 (permalink)
Parihaka Moderator Join Date: 11-10-04 Location: Te Ika a Maui Posts: 9,976 Country:	Beer from the fridge, comfy seat, cheetos, suglasses, yep, I'm ready.... __________________ In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility. Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz

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09-07-2006, 22:49 PM	#154 (permalink)
buisness man Regular Join Date: 09-01-06 Posts: 52	Let his people overfrow him ha ha

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