Bluesman

Troll identified. Gunner: load HE. FIRE!

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"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell

Confed999

No they don't. They already agreed not to.
We never agreed to give up ours.
Because they threaten people with genocide, tyrannize their own peoples, and support terrorism.
Defend themselves from whom?
They have all of the oil and gas they need for power.


Also, we don't like sock puppets here, move on...

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No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

Tronic

lol... nice name he/she picked for himself/herself... atleast they have now started to admit to being terrorists and not "freedom fighters" as they earlier claimed...

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Nabha Sparasham Deeptam
-Touch The Sky With Glory

HistoricalDavid

...Will is not the thing stopping Iran from getting weaponry, it's technical ability.

Assuming the USAF/USN didn't get there first.

Nuclear weapons grant neither invincibility nor diplomatic immunity to anyone.

Expat Canuck

Wow that guys got banned quick.

To play devils advocate he does have a point in some way. As much as I don’t want Iran to have nukes and we should stop them what gives us the right to? Really, how would we feel if say China came over and said hey quit building a military capable of fighting back! Quit it or we’ll smack you all one so help me.

I know I’ll get flamed for it and I’m not trolling but at what point do we stop taking it upon ourselves to tell others what they can and can not do? When have we crossed the line into becoming what we profess to hate so much under the banner of freedom?

I’m in no way saying that we are an evil society but if we continue like this we may be looked back upon in history as the evil ones. All I’m saying is we need to be careful as not every citizen in a country we attack is a crazy mad man and unless they hit us first as was the case with Germany and Japan, we started it.

HistoricalDavid

a) cost/benefit - cold as it may sound, the cost of a Middle Eastern nuclear war or standoff will probably be worse than pre-emptory action on its facilities now.
b) they're probably more irrational than other regimes - like the late Soviet Union - and MAD doctrine might not work with them.
c) they have a wide, consistent range of abuses of freedom.

China can't smack 'us' without far worse retaliatory consequences.

At whatever point when individuals enjoy their natural rights to life, liberty and property.

Why don't you complain about Iranian clerics telling people in their country how to behave, what to wear, etc etc...

Very eloquent, but you're anthropomorphising nations. Personally I like individual freedom and abhor all this nationalist talk of 'national rights and freedoms'.

I think we should be concerned with now, rather than what the history books say.

Nope, Iran started it through its tyranny, sponsorship of terrorism, threatening politics and whatnot.

highsea

They are signatories of the NPT- this gives them rights and obligations under the treaty.

If they choose to violate the treaty, then they lose the rights they gain under the treaty. IOW, access to nuke tech from signatory nations and the NSG.

The US has the right to decide who we do business with, as does every other country. Hence the ILSA.

Iran has repeatedly violated the NPT. The IAEA is obliged to take the matter to the UNSC. The UNSC (theoretically) will decide if and what International Sanctions are apropriate. In practice, nothing will happen at the SC level, because Russia and China will protect Iran from any meaningful SC actions.

Non-signatory nations can do what they want- India, Israel, and Pakistan all developed nuclear weapons "outside the treaty", more or less. They met with mixed support from the International community as a result.

Thankfully, most countries do not want nukes. Iran doesn't appear to be one of them.
You suggest we wait until Iran blackmails their enemies with nukes? The open and overt threats are not enough for you to take the threat seriously?

The US government also has the obligation to protect the country. When a country like Iran makes blatant threats, and is looking to build nuclear weapons, the government cannot afford to ignore the threat. We already know where that path leads.

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My baby called me up. She said- Why don't you ever take me out? Pick me up in your brand new car....You shake the short change from the old fruit jar...

Tronic

yea... good post Highsea...

Anon

If Rome managed to get out of it with a good rap, i think we will too.

Besides....history is written by the victor. Yet more motivation to not lose. LOL

A violation of a signed treaty is a justifiable cause for war.


"The right of a nation to kill a tyrant in case of necessity can no more be doubted than to hang a robber, or kill a flea."
~ John Adams

Dreadnought

I knew I liked John Adams for some reason and lo and behold it presents itself.
Im also a fan of his brother Sammuel...but thats for a different reason.

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Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

highsea

The "Best Beer in America?" (says so right on the bottle)...

Dreadnought

Cheers!

Ray

India has not signed the NPT, but it has not proliferated the nuclear tech to others.

Many who are signatory have openly violated it and got away!

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"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA

highsea

And they are the same ones who are protecting Iran today...

Anon

Yeah in the US's defense the Jews stole our technology, the french developed it on their own, and well, the UK is a suburb of America anyway.