Vaman

We dont believe in a xtian/islamic god or his judgement day. Simply put he is irrelevant here.Lets not bring him in here.
Though I agree one must be responsibles for his own actions.

No but they have every right to ensure that they are free of any foreign manipulation. If nuclear weapons allows them that, so be it.

Parihaka

My apologies, consider the symbol of god as a symbol your own conscience eating a bowl of spaghetti and meatballs.


Indeed, but they do not have the right to actively assert they are going to destroy another country and seek the technology to do that. Or should we just let them develop an atomic bomb, let them use it against Israel (and whoever else) and then those of us left can wring our hands and say 'who would have thought?'
When somebody says they'll do a thing, I believe them.

Monk

That is about as racist a statement as I have ever heard.
A restatement of "white man's burden" if you will. Thank you for the condescension.

AS this Iran crisis gets larger I am convinced everyday in Iran's right to nuclear weapons. I think a substantial increase in asian nuclear weapons may not be such a bad counterweight to western hypocrisy and racism. Just look at mittal steel's takeover attempt of Arcelor, it is being blocked purely for racist reasons.

__________________
"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those others that have been tried from time to time. "

"Although prepared for martyrdom, I preferred that it be postponed."

Sir Winston Churchill

Officer of Engineers

Let's try to avoid a real Iran version of a Soviet (read American) nuclear supported invasion to China's Lop Nor (read Iran's nuclear facilities).

__________________
Chimo

Vaman

HUh??
I dont understand. Could you explain please?

Officer of Engineers

In the early 1970s, the Soviets planned a massive nuclear strike supported invasion of northern China, specifically to the Chinese nuclear weapons facilities at Lop Nor. So ready were the Soviets that Brezhnev asked Nixon for support for such a strike to which Nixon replied that the US would view such an action with the gravest of consequences. I don't think Brezhnev believed Nixon would have gone to war over China but it would mean a weakend hand against the US when the Soviets were committed to China.

What's been known now is that the Chinese could have done crap all in the retallitory area. All their rockets aimed at the USSR were armed with HE, not nukes (the warheads were not reliable enough - incidently, the same plans that got into Pakistan's hands). The few planes that were nuke capable would have had a hard time penetrating Soviet air defences.

The Chinese bluffed and it worked - ONCE.

Don't think the Iranians are in any position to bluff yet.

Julie

Excuse me, but I, as an American do not recall voting in the Iran election.

Vaman

Is that because as an american national you shouldnt be voting in Iran anyway?

Monk

Parihaka

Oh really? And how exactly do you work that one out you ****ing little ****er. You wish to call me a racist because I tell you you can't let someone elses poor behaviour justify your own poor behaviour? Go **** yourself.

Oh and I hereby accuse you of racism because you cannot debate an issue but simply make accusations of racism to cover your own mental incapabilities. I don't give a monkeys **** about the white mans burden yet it obviously plays big in your mind, hater.

Vaman

Now look what you have gone and done Pari.

It was you who said:

Parihaka

HA.
And what exactly would be my poor behaviour, pray tell? Pointing out the obvious?
And are you another who believes that any with white blood should be blamed for your, your nations, or your peoples failings, as does Monk? Your beginning posts would suggest so.

Vaman

One, I dont think of blood as any color other than red.
Two, I'd like everybody to take responsibility for their actions whether past or present. Just because an action is in the past does not absolve someone from it.

gunnut

That is not what they said they want to do.

Self defense is a bit different than yelling death and destruction.

How would you feel if your neighbor publicly declares that you, your wife, kids, and relatives should be killed and your house burnt down? Oh, by the way, he's actively looking on the black market for a shotgun and plenty of ammo...all for "self defense."

Parihaka

RUBBISH. You are proposing that people of British and American descent, many of whom weren't even born during the time you are refering to should be held collectively reponsible for the actions not only of their own forbears but the actions of the present day Iranians
In other words
Now look what YOU made THEM do.






Oh and
and I do take responsibility for my actions. For instance I take full responsibility for calling Monk a ****ing little ****er. I do NOT however take responsibility for him BEING a ****ing little ****er.