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Thread: Should We Fix Gaza, Iran And N. Korea?

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    Should We Fix Gaza, Iran And N. Korea?

    Chicago Tribune
    August 19, 2005

    Should We Fix Gaza, Iran And N. Korea?

    By Victor Davis Hanson

    `I supported the war, but not the aftermath" is a commonplace lament about Afghanistan and Iraq. But dealing with terrorists and fanatics is never easy. We can attest to that by looking at hot spots--Gaza, Iran and North Korea--where the U.S. has let others handle the mess.

    Indeed, we have been given a rare chance across the globe to evaluate radically different paths: Is it best to let others handle terrorists and rogue states through diplomacy and conciliation, or is American proactive intervention to prompt democracy in the place of tyranny the wiser course of action?

    There has been plenty of angry discussion over America's efforts and approaches in Afghanistan and Iraq, but let's take a closer look at the situations unfolding in Gaza, Iran and North Korea.

    In Gaza, the Palestinians are getting their wish of independence. Either an autonomous and lawful state will follow--or something akin to Tombstone, where Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Palestinian Authority shoot it out and brag about expelling the Jews.

    Either way, the choice is now in the hands of various Palestinian factions, as the U.S. has given up on Oslolike prodding. The Palestinians can show the world that a free Gaza is a blueprint for a stable West Bank. Or their behavior will reflect that the Israelis were simply an excuse that diverted attention from a time-honored chaos of tribalism, corruption, religious fanaticism and intolerance.

    In the meantime, ponder this recent pronouncement of the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, an armed wing of the Palestinian-ruling Fatah movement, about the recent voluntary withdrawal of Israelis from Gaza. "Palestine is not Gaza only, but rather, Palestine is Palestine from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea."

    Then there is Iran--and its leadership's bid for a nuclear program. Despite vast reserves of $65-a-barrel petroleum, and natural gas being burned off at the wellhead, Iran apparently needs nuclear power to ensure its energy needs.

    Listen to what the chief Iranian nuclear affairs negotiator, Hosein Musavian, said about Europe's efforts to prevent his theocracy from going nuclear.

    "Thanks to our dealings with Europe, even when we got a 50-day ultimatum, we managed to continue the work for two years. This way we completed [the uranium conversion facility] in Isfahan."

    Musavian further boasted, "During these two years of negotiations, we managed to make far greater progress than North Korea."

    How odd. Conventional wisdom assured us that Iranians would be reasonable when Europeans offered soothing words while "bullying" Americans remained distant.

    So far Europe has offered Iran a joint program to build a new pipeline, help with its civilian nuclear energy agenda and a non-aggression pact, while also criticizing the United States.

    Either an appeased Iran will respond by rejoining the family of nations, or it will nuclearize its missiles--thereby obtaining more concessions from Europe, threatening Israel and nearby rival oil producers, and undermining the frail democracy in Iraq.

    Either way, the U.S. seems to be staying out of it, and the result will be Europe's own diplomatic legacy.

    Also without American input, South and North Korea recently jointly celebrated the 60th anniversary of their liberation from Japanese occupation. There was no mention of America's contribution to their freedom. Instead, many in both countries have expressed anger at the United States for the division between North and South. We are often assured by prominent South Koreans that America, not Stalinism, was the cause of the Korean War.

    Yet the Bush administration has shunned unilateral negotiations with Pyongyang. Instead, it has embraced the multilateral route and deferred to the South. Sometimes it seems as if we wouldn't mind a South Korean invitation to leave the demilitarized zone altogether so it can get on with reconciliation with its "benign" socialist brethren to the north.

    These examples of diplomacy are all in marked contrast to the military offensives the U.S. is conducting in Iraq and Afghanistan. Time, as always, will determine the wiser course of action.

    Perhaps a freed Gaza will become something like democratic Turkey. A responsible Iran and the Europeans may hammer out a peaceful partnership. And the North Koreans could put away their weapons and begin reunification with the South. In contrast, Afghanistan and Iraq could descend into even more chaos, confirming the belief of many that imposing U.S. solutions on complex indigenous problems in these countries was a mistake.

    Or then again, Gaza, Iran and North Korea may become the fountainheads of deadly misery well beyond their borders. Meanwhile, Iraq and Afghanistan, thanks in large part to the thousands of American soldiers risking their lives to ensure that elections are not derailed, may settle down to enjoy the first constitutional governments in the Middle East--in the manner that democratic Japan, Germany, Italy, South Korea, Panama and the Balkans are now more stable after U.S. resolve and sacrifices.

    For now, I doubt whether Palestinians, Iranians and North Koreans will be pacified by the deference of others. Sooner or later they may well have their own rendezvous with the quiet Americans now in the shadows.

    Victor Davis Hanson is a senior fellow and historian at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University.

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    Banned Alamgir's Avatar
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    No, you cant "fix" anything by going to war. Nothing has been "fixed" in Afghanistan or Iraq and here some jerk is talking about "fixing" Iran and other places like North Korea.

    It wont happen.

    Why dont they fix their gang and drug problems in their own schools and cities first before talking about international issues.

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    Senior Contributor Asim Aquil's Avatar
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    Stick to Gaza (non-war of course), since you're already involved and the only one that'll appeal to both parties.

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    Lord High Hullabalooster Senior Contributor dalem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alamgir
    No, you cant "fix" anything by going to war. Nothing has been "fixed" in Afghanistan or Iraq and here some jerk is talking about "fixing" Iran and other places like North Korea.

    It wont happen.

    Why dont they fix their gang and drug problems in their own schools and cities first before talking about international issues.
    On the contrary, history is replete with examples of problems that have been fixed by going to war. Think about it.

    -dale

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    Ray
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    Dalem,

    War sure can fix things.

    But you have to go as the "conqueror" and not with namby pamby claptrap of "freedom and democracy".

    No one buys that.

    Go. Win and Rule with an Iron Hand. Leave when it is convenient and Leave behind Freedom and Democracy.

    British did that.

    You can do it too!

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    Patron SloMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalem
    On the contrary, history is replete with examples of problems that have been fixed by going to war. Think about it.

    -dale
    True, but many things were solved without war too. You shouldn't rush into it or discount it.

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    Staff Emeritus Confed999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SloMax
    True, but many things were solved without war too. You shouldn't rush into it or discount it.
    Actually that was the point, in reverse, Dale was making to what he quoted...
    No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
    I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
    even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
    He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray
    Dalem,

    War sure can fix things.

    But you have to go as the "conqueror" and not with namby pamby claptrap of "freedom and democracy".

    No one buys that.

    Go. Win and Rule with an Iron Hand. Leave when it is convenient and Leave behind Freedom and Democracy.

    British did that.

    You can do it too!
    --------------------------------------------------
    Sorry mate, you are very wrong. War can't fix the problems, it makes them.

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    Neo
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    Iran is most sensitive of the three regions, aftermath will include further hostility between muslims and the west.
    This can not be 'fixed'!

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    Ray,

    Dalem,

    War sure can fix things.

    But you have to go as the "conqueror" and not with namby pamby claptrap of "freedom and democracy".

    No one buys that.

    Go. Win and Rule with an Iron Hand. Leave when it is convenient and Leave behind Freedom and Democracy.

    British did that.

    You can do it too!
    frighteningly enough, this view was becoming quite prevalent in many sectors of the american foreign policy community- spillover effects from the neo-conservatives in power. the siren song of empire, as described by max boot and niall ferguson...

    iraq certainly cured america of the desire to wear pith helmets or kepis.

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    Senior Contributor Asim Aquil's Avatar
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    War will never fix things. You might quiten the elements that bother you, but heighten their desires to come back at ya.

    Its that desire thats the problem, not a few AK-47s. Their human brain is their biggest weapon and corruptor. Fix the brain, if you can.

  12. #12
    Ubi dubium ibi libertas Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis
    frighteningly enough, this view was becoming quite prevalent in many sectors of the american foreign policy community- spillover effects from the neo-conservatives in power. the siren song of empire, as described by max boot and niall ferguson...
    Those damn Neo-cons again. What ever happened to "reactionary" that was a much catchier slur for "conservative," IMO.

    iraq certainly cured america of the desire to wear pith helmets or kepis.
    I certainly hope not because there's a lot more work to do.
    "Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have."
    "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

    NEVER FORGET

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leader
    I certainly hope not because there's a lot more work to do.
    Right. Faster, please.
    "The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
    - George Orwell

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