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Thread: Russia warns of foreign meddling

  1. #1
    Patron SloMax's Avatar
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    Russia warns of foreign meddling

    Russia warns of foreign meddling

    MOSCOW, Russia (Reuters) -- Russia warned foreigners against meddling in the ex-Soviet Union Tuesday, saying bids to force Ukraine-style democratic uprisings on the region or influence its politics would lead to extremism and unrest.

    The Georgian and Ukrainian uprisings caused grave concern in Russia, and officials have accused the West of exploiting pro-democracy sentiment to undermine Moscow's influence in its own backyard, the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS).

    Georgia's 2003 "rose revolution" and Ukraine's 2004 "orange revolution," both sparked by rigged elections, they caused pro-democracy uprisings to be given the name of "colored revolutions" in Russia.

    "We cannot agree with the methods of forcibly democratizing the whole former Soviet region, whether this is using colored revolutions or using political pressure through the media on existing authorities," said Grigory Karasin, a Russian deputy foreign minister.

    "This would unavoidably lead to the destabilization of the situation in the region, bringing serious long-term difficulties and unforeseeable consequences, including in the sense of a rise in extremism."

    Karasin, Russia's top official for links with the 12-nation CIS, made the comments in official daily Rossiiskaya Gazeta amid preparations for next week's summit of the main ex-Soviet grouping.

    His comments followed a series of statements from President Vladimir Putin and security officials, who have accused charities and human rights groups of being fronts for spies aiming to form a less assertive government in Moscow.

    Many officials say Belarus, called "Europe's last dictatorship" by Washington, could be the next target for pro-democracy activists during elections next year.

    A recent crackdown by Belarus on ethnic Poles' cultural organizations is seen by analysts as a bid to stop an organized opposition emerging.

    CIS leaders are to meet on August 26 in the Russian city of Kazan.

    link: http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/eu...eut/index.html

  2. #2
    Ubi dubium ibi libertas Senior Contributor
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    Would anyone be sorry if an "accident" befell Mr. Putin? I wouldn't be. The guy is one of the most dangerous individuals on the planet.
    "Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have."
    "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

    NEVER FORGET

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    Patron SloMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leader
    Would anyone be sorry if an "accident" befell Mr. Putin? I wouldn't be. The guy is one of the most dangerous individuals on the planet.
    ...and he still manages that most Russians like him.

  4. #4
    Ubi dubium ibi libertas Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by SloMax
    ...and he still manages that most Russians like him.
    Most Iraqis liked Saddam too. He got 99.9% of the vote.
    "Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have."
    "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

    NEVER FORGET

  5. #5
    Senior Contributor smilingassassin's Avatar
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    Funny thing is, Russia would like to back leaders from rigged elections in order to retain loyal allies. How about relying on their own free judgement instead?

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    Lord High Hullabalooster Senior Contributor dalem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilingassassin
    Funny thing is, Russia would like to back leaders from rigged elections in order to retain loyal allies. How about relying on their own free judgement instead?
    Russians don't have a history of free judgement. Czars to Stalin to a succession of peasant oafs. They got a chance to choose and they ran back to a hardliner. Putin is probably the best thing for them.

    -dale

  7. #7
    Ubi dubium ibi libertas Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalem
    They got a chance to choose and they ran back to a hardliner. Putin is probably the best thing for them.
    I disagree the Russia people need someone to lead them to freedom instead of continuing down the old authoritarian path. You can't just blame the population for electing bad leaders because absolves the leaders of their crimes.
    "Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have."
    "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

    NEVER FORGET

  8. #8
    Patron SloMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalem
    Russians don't have a history of free judgement. Czars to Stalin to a succession of peasant oafs. They got a chance to choose and they ran back to a hardliner. Putin is probably the best thing for them.

    -dale
    This is probably the truth. Most Russians always admired strong authoritative leader. Russians must develop their own type of democracy if they want it to succeed.

  9. #9
    Ubi dubium ibi libertas Senior Contributor
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    "Russians must develop their own type of democracy if they want it to succeed."

    You want them to do what? Follow the Hitler model?
    "Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have."
    "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

    NEVER FORGET

  10. #10
    Patron SloMax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leader
    "Russians must develop their own type of democracy if they want it to succeed."

    You want them to do what? Follow the Hitler model?
    No, just tailored it to their needs. Like more socialistic ideas integrated into democracy if the people want that. You have many types of democracy. US has its own type, Western Europe has its own... Democracy must be tailored to the nation’s culture and traditions if it should work properly.

  11. #11
    Lord High Hullabalooster Senior Contributor dalem's Avatar
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    The Russian people have no history of anything we in the West would consider analagous to freedom or democracy. Left to their own devices, a "natural" affinity for a strong whip hand is not that bizarre.

    Plus there is the fact that for 30+ years Stalin killed everyone and anyone with a modicum of drive or innovation within his borders. It's no wonder that the best the Russians can come up with is a "mild" dictator like Putin.

    -dale

  12. #12
    Ubi dubium ibi libertas Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by SloMax
    No, just tailored it to their needs.
    They don't "need" authoritarian dictators.

    Like more socialistic ideas integrated into democracy if the people want that.
    Fine with me, but that's not what's happening.

    You have many types of democracy. US has its own type, Western Europe has its own... Democracy must be tailored to the nation’s culture and traditions if it should work properly.
    If it's not representative of the people it's not a just government.
    "Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have."
    "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

    NEVER FORGET

  13. #13
    Ubi dubium ibi libertas Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalem
    The Russian people have no history of anything we in the West would consider analagous to freedom or democracy.
    Neither does Iraq. Should we find another Hussein for them?

    Left to their own devices, a "natural" affinity for a strong whip hand is not that bizarre.
    People in Russia aren't "naturally" different then people anywhere else. They want a say in there government. They want good jobs and a functioning economy. They want to walk down the streets without wondering if the secret police are going to arrest them, torture them, torture their families, and then dump their bodies by the side of the road.

    Plus there is the fact that for 30+ years Stalin killed everyone and anyone with a modicum of drive or innovation within his borders.
    Children aren't born without "drive or innovation" because their parents managed to suppress it in themselves.

    It's no wonder that the best the Russians can come up with is a "mild" dictator like Putin.
    I disagree. Putin is far from "mild." He's dangerous to his neighbors and to us.
    "Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have."
    "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

    NEVER FORGET

  14. #14
    Staff Emeritus Confed999's Avatar
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    I'm with you Leader...
    No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
    I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
    even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
    He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

  15. #15
    Senior Contributor smilingassassin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leader
    Neither does Iraq. Should we find another Hussein for them?
    You know thats the first time I've seen Iraq used as an example for something, other than Vietnam!

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