Thread: Not all civilisations equal, French minister says

Originally Posted by Doktor

For instance, Orthodox churches, tho they have patriarch are independent, yet the opinion from Constantinople or Moscow means a lot. Just saying.

You are adding a geopolitical dimension here.

Why does a Kuwaiti legislator go to a mufti in SA for advice. Kuwait is a small country, contract disputes between GOK and intl companies are heard in London. Maybe for religious afairs they go to SA. But they still have the choice whether to implement it or not.

Women can work & drive in Kuwait, there are churches there, unlike SA.

Originally Posted by Doktor

So there is a chance they will burn them all?

Think you misunderstood me. There is a lot of hysteria or publicity by interested parties when a bill comes out, this does not mean it will become a law.

Originally Posted by Doktor

Only when the hosts there become guests elsewhere try to live their way, and those double standards start to annoy me.

I understand and am greatfull for that. My wife and my mom, too.

Now you know why i support more freedom in the Arab world.

Bishop in Kuwait criticizes legislation restricting Christian churches | US Catholic | March 13, 2012

Bishop in Kuwait criticizes legislation restricting Christian churches
Tuesday, March 13, 2012
By Catholic News Service
By Jonathan Luxmoore

OXFORD, England (CNS) -- The bishop who administers the church in Kuwait criticized legislation that would restrict Christian places of worship in the country.

"There'll be problems if the government adopts this proposal; it's out of step with the traditions of Kuwait, which seeks to be an open, tolerant country welcoming other religions besides Islam," said Italian-born Bishop Camillo Ballin, apostolic administrator of Kuwait.

Such proposals come "from ideologies which want to divide the world between Muslims and non-Muslims," he told Catholic News Service March 12.

In February, the newly formed al-Adala (Justice) Bloc introduced legislation to remove Christian churches from Kuwait and impose Islamic law, or Shariah. Party officials said later the legislation would not remove the churches but prohibit further construction of Christian churches and non-Muslim places of worship in the country. It also introduces Islam-inspired measures to fight corruption and "strengthen national unity."

Bishop Ballin told CNS that al-Adala's claims that there were more churches in Kuwait than needed by its Christian minority were untrue and took account only of the small number of Christians who were ethnic Kuwaitis. He said the church needs at least 36,000 square yards of additional space to accommodate practicing Catholics.

"When religious life is assured, social life is also easier -- so why can't our foreign members have a place for worship?" the bishop asked.

"We want to collaborate with the government to make an ever-better society in Kuwait. But for this, we need to ensure constant religious education for our faithful, and this requires space, time and personnel.

"The world is becoming one big village, where we cannot separate people and religions," he added. "We have to live as brothers, since we're together every day."

He said Christian minorities were respected in Kuwait and that he had "never experienced enmity" despite wearing his cassock and pectoral cross everywhere.

"Our faithful take many initiatives here, running associations and prayer groups, as well as meeting for spiritual formation and helping the poor. Most importantly, they are predominantly young and zealous and wish to stay faithful to their Catholic faith," the bishop said.

The Catholic Church claims 350,000 mostly expatriate members in Kuwait, making up 6 percent of the emirate's population.

Several other Christian groups, Kuwait's Council for Islamic-Christian Relations and the Kuwait Human Rights Society also criticized the proposal by the Islamic parliamentary bloc.

Doktor, you did not hear about this affair because it happened a month ago.

'Church demolition illegal, unconstitutional’ | Kuwait TImes | Feb 19 2012

KUWAIT: Curtailing Christians’ religious freedom by removing churches violates the country’s laws, and is an affront to the tolerant image of Islam and Kuwaiti society, said Jamaal Al-Shehab , Minister of Justice, Awqaf and Islamic Affairs. This was his first public comment to reports about a lawmaker’s plans to submit a draft law banning the construction of new churches.

Reassuring that the Constitution promotes freedom of religious belief and practice, Al-Shehab recognized MPs’ right to use constitutional tools, adding that religious scholars should be consulted to limit the number of churches operating here. Al-Shehab described the demolition of all churches in Kuwait as illegal, unconstitutional and in violation of Islamic regulations.

Islamist MP Osama Al-Munawer, on the other hand, clarified that he has not called for removing the existing churches in Kuwait, but does not approve of building more Christian worship places. “Kuwait already has enough churches to cater to the needs of the state’s Christian minority.” He clarified on Friday that the Ministry of Awqaf and Islamic Affairs has issued a license to construct a new church. Al-Munawer said that he plans to submit a parliamentary inquiry on the subject to minister Al-Shehab. “We respect freedom of religious practice for followers of other faiths, yet it’s illogical to agree with every demand that falls in line with their beliefs,” the Islamist lawmaker said. “Should we legalize alcohol for example just because its consumption is allowed in other religions?”he asked.

Shiite MP Ahmad Lari asserted that building churches complies with freedom of religious belief and practice “which the Constitution lays down,” adding on Friday that any restrictions imposed on this freedom violates constitutional principles. — Al-Rai

Tolerance in Islam | Al Watan Op-Ed | Mar 5 2012 Religious scholars rebuttal

Originally Posted by Double Edge

Doktor, you did not hear about this affair because it happened a month ago.

Nope, but do you notice how shifted perception is. They are taking if to flatten all the churches, leave those that are there or allow building new ones like it was so far and is in their constitution. In the smallest countries on ME.

Originally Posted by Doktor

Nope, but do you notice how shifted perception is. They are taking if to flatten all the churches, leave those that are there or allow building new ones like it was so far and is in their constitution. In the smallest countries on ME.

Who is they ? Islamist MP Osama Al Munawer & his party

Its been over a month and i do not see much progress since he made this statement in Feb 18. In that part of the world their favourite expressions are 'slowly, slowly' & later or afterwards

One thing he has in common with the Frenchman who this thread is titled after is he wants to push for his party by creating a division.

The shift in perception as you put it has to be seen in the background of recent political developments in Kuwait.

Kuwait's 2012 National Assembly Elections and the Future of Kuwaiti Democracy| Al Jazeera Report | Feb 29 2012

The assembly elections concluded on Feb 2 with the creation of the 14th national assembly.

Despite being the pioneer of democracy in the Gulf region, Kuwaiti democracy suffers from recurrent crises. This is reflected in the dissolution of the National Assembly four times in less than six years (2006, 2008, 2009 and 2011). This has taken place in the context of a conflict between the executive and the legislature - which is also one of the causes of the crisis with Kuwaiti democracy.

With the slogan of ‘reform’ and ‘fighting corruption’ used in its election campaign, the opposition has taken full control of Parliamentary powers, with their number of MPs having risen to thirty-four. Thirty-three seats are needed to prevail over the vote of the fifteen non-elected ministers, who, under the Constitution, can exercise the right to vote in the National Assembly.

The second significant trend to emerge from this election is the resurgence of a strong current of Sunni Islam. This is represented by the dominance of the Islamic Constitutional Movement and independent Salafis, comprising around twenty-three MPs in the 2012 parliament, compared to only nine MPs in the former assembly. With this result, the Islamists regain their weight and strong presence in the current assembly.

So there is an islamist wave at work here. But they don't have enough to prevail over the non-elected members.

Analysts have suggested that the 14th Assembly will be a ‘transitional Assembly’, and expect it to be short-lived (between six months to two years). As such the impressive victory achieved by the opposition and its ability to counter-balance the vote in the National Assembly may not end the political crisis. The fierce and heated battle for the presidency of the Assembly may be the cause of its transience.

Others argue that this assembly contains deep contradictions, and is a minefield that can explode at any moment. Some of the new MPs have described it as an ‘extremist Assembly’ and likened it to ‘a sea of darkness’.

This points to an unstable govt that will not be able to be decisive let alone act on partisan issues such as this.

Islamist Victory in Kuwait: What Happened, and What Next? | Al Monitor | Feb 2012

Originally Posted by Double Edge

But why do you care about other cultures in other countries.

That's an easy one, because sometimes you bring the bad parts with you.

disclaimer

Not singling you out just used recent headlines and one perhaps you've heard of already.

Khalistan movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

'Honour killings' on the rise in Canada: Expert



This stuff sticks around more than the positive aspects which provokes a knee-jerk reaction with little thought behind it.