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Reply With QuoteTrue. They also killed or chased away the indigenous people and stole their land. I am simply awestruck by the superiority of their civilization.Originally Posted by omon
it doesn't matter what they have in possession, what matters is the intent with which they come in. reality is different, fortunately it is mostly 1st generation of immigrants, have no intent of adsorbing new culture, and assimilate, their kids are opposite, their grand kids will not know much or care about country their parents\grand parents came from. however if large amount of immigrant come in short period of time, they create phenomenon as we see in Europe.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin
True. They also killed or chased away the indigenous people and stole their land. I am simply awestruck by the superiority of their civilization.
true, world isn't fareTrue. They also killed or chased away the indigenous people and stole their land. I am simply awestruck by the superiority of their civilization.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin
This is a gem! You criticise me for using example (wasn't aware that the etymology of 'barbarian' was an example but nvm) and then proceed to cite cars as an example. Again I shall forgive that... Suppose then I wish to cross a desert, the Sahara for example; presumably a 4 by four with wide wheels and maybe a winch on it would be superior to some flashy sports car that can beat anyone off the lights? It is a matter of diferent horses for different courses no? I don't win formula 1 races in a Range Rover nor do I cross a desert in a formula 1 car.
"When somebody brings up infrastructure as an example, I'm sure they don't mean infrastructure is the only benchmark they have at comparing civilizations. So don't go tackle only against the example, because that is a form of strawman." But I prefaced all my remarks here by saying 'I'm not sure one can define civilisation'... I also further gave the opinion that the principle of freedom of speech is intrinsic to 'Western Culture' in contrast to ancient and modern Eastern cultural norms. In other words I do not agree that the level of achievement of a civilisation/culture, whether in terms of 'infrastructure/technology or military conquest is intrinsic to it's civilisation/culture. Sparta was a Kingdom and militaristic but it was NOT a tryanny; there were two Kings and council of Ephors and all ate together. A Spartan regarded himself as free in contrast to how they viewed the Persians. The Persian Empire was larger and probably had better bridge builders etc (the Hellespont bridge springs to mind) yet to ancient Greeks it was 'barbarian' because they regarded the King as a God. This doesn't make one culture superior to the other but was sufficient grounds for ancient Greeks to wish to defend their culture.
No, I criticize you for picking apart very 1 dimensional examples of others and use that as proof against them.
i.e. One brought up roads, hospitals, etc, and you cite that as defining a civilization based only on infrastructure as if that is the only factor he believes in when I'm sure it was just one facet of civilization which he counts.
As for your scenario, as explained by my analogy, yes there are different cars good at different things, however there are also different cars designed for the SAME thing, where one is better than the other.
There are also cars that are superior in most aspects to its counter parts, and that can be categorized as a superior car.
For example, one would consider the ford model T is an inferior car to most of the modern sedans.
In the example given by previous posters, Afghanistan vs USA. In nearly all measurable statistic, USA surpasses Afghanistan by a very wide margin. Does this not qualify the USA as being a superior civilization than Afghanistan?
I know this-many years ago I swore Mihais to an oath defending the gates of Vienna from the barbarians. He's not been released from that oath.
That lad's sword had best be sharpened and his horse tended with saddle ready for the call to action.
"This aggression will not stand, man!"
Jeff Lebowski
Being British I wouldn't know
So true, the fair is held at the fair grounds, each year - beyond that special annual event, it is hard to find anything that is fair in our world.
"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children." -- Confucius
What fare do you pay at the fair?
a fair price
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin
Marseille - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I am not sure if you were aware but, france organized many muslim territories as dept's of france rather then colonies. Muslims from North Africa died in both European wars
So, the point you miss that there is a long standing very large muslim population of french algerians in the city
I think it isn't a case of any culture being superior as the level of inferiority each is at in relation to what we idealize as a civilized culture. We all have a hard time seeing the blindspots of uncivilized practices in our own cultures. We all have a long way to go before patting ourselves on the back about the rightuesnes of our cultural experience Islam in France - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
~Ronald Reagan
S2,Sir,I have few illusions about the readiness of most.They'll notice the threat when the fist hits them in face.Eventually we'll win,but the real shame and pity is that a lot of blood will be needlessy shed. A good ole boy ,Cicero,had this to say about our current situation: "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. The traitor is the plague."
The problem is when the house cleaning and the removing of rot starts.If,by some miracle,will start before the arrival of the horde it will be relatively easy.Otherwise it will turn very ugly.Necessity knows few niceties.
p.s I notice with some amusement how many confuse good manners with civilisation.Evil whites who slaughtered Indians.It's very funny how distance in time and space creates a world view.I'd love to see some of ya go back in time and tell your story to those who had their captured children burned alive by the Comanches.With the story of the captives gone native I'm already familiar.
Those who know don't speak
S2,Sir,I have few illusions about the readiness of most...Eventually we'll win,but the real shame and pity is that a lot of blood will be needlessy shed..."
Those unprepared and sacrificed for their negligence will be the currency paid for freedom. It's not a right but, instead, earned by the blood of those willing to do their duty.
I've great faith in your ability and willingness to carry the cudgel.
"...I'd love to see some of ya go back in time and tell your story to those who had their captured children burned alive by the Comanches..."
Naw. They kill the parents and raise the children as one of the tribe. If you haven't you must watch The Searchers, a wonderfully classic film directed by the great John Ford-
I believe it's all here on youtube.
Last edited by S2; 10 Feb 12, at 02:35.
"This aggression will not stand, man!"
Jeff Lebowski
Good link ,Sir.I'll watch that classic again.Big fan of westerns,Indians and Randall Mackenzie.Big fan of Winnetou also,an Apache chief you must have heard of in Germany.Nice book to read while guarding the cattles during summer vacation in 3d&4th grade
Not going to disagree for the fun of it,but while some captives enjoyed the life with the tribe and were life long defenders of the Indians(even after their eventual return among the pale faces) a good deal were toast.Depends on the mood of the braves.As for women,tough luck.No emancipation.
Btw,your lot has forgotten a lot of lessonss about COIN in 150 years.No nation building back then.
Those who know don't speak
Was the Interior Minister referring to "Civilisation" in a technical sense as in a particular society’s level of education, scientific and industrial achievement. If so such measurements can be objectively assessed but any such exercise seems more and more irrelevant as the world becomes increasingly globalized and global living standards rise or is he referring to "Culture". In which case any assessment vis-a-vie the relative superiority/inferiority of two contemporary cultures is largely subjective. I think he may have been referring to the latter.
Last edited by Monash; 10 Feb 12, at 13:08.
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