Alot of people starved under his reign, massive amounts of famine.
Edit: where is the thread recently he was pictured during NK Military exercises?
I wonder who will come out on top in the succession struggle. the impression I had was that Kim's Generals didnt really like the idea of working for his sons.
For Gallifrey! For Victory! For the end of time itself!!
Alot of people starved under his reign, massive amounts of famine.
Edit: where is the thread recently he was pictured during NK Military exercises?
So well he get some "eternal" title? Like Eternal Field Marshal or something.
Interesting times ahead. And job app season, too.
He had a reasonable authority and could stack the party to a certain degree. It's not just him that'll be 6 feet under soon.
Osama bin Laden, Muammar Gaddafi, Kim Jong-il...man what a year.
in that sense, yeah, a good year
If i only was so smart yesterday as my wife is today
Minding your own biz is great virtue, but situation awareness saves lives - Dok
If you were in the circle of powerful movers and shakers would you want a strong person above you or a weak one, that you could blame for everything and control?
My guess is they will support the weak son if he is that. The real bet here is on the people whom are moderately in power and actually do all the implementation will they want to continue with this or do they overthrow their bosses for redistribution of wealth in a united Korea?
Ergo poor with power or rich without power. I get a feeling those cogs in the machine will want something better for them and theirs and push the regime to dissipate. Also no clue as to how the black market operates in NKorea.
Originally from Sochi, Russia.
this seems risky, the young son was only officially designated as heir like a year ago was he not? that didn't sound like enough time to really put everything in place for his succession. it seems rather unlikely that a 20ish year old can lead an entrenched state like that.
Also, that he died of "overwork" is such Putin material
"Eternal President" - Kim Il-sung "Under the leadership of the Workers' Party of Korea, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea and the Korean people will hold the great leader Comrade Kim Il-sung in high esteem as the eternal President of the Republic . . .."
"Supreme Leader" - Kim Jon-il "In April 2009, North Korea's constitution was amended too refer to Kim Jong-il as supreme leader".
The main entities of North Korean Government -
Head of government
President of the Supreme People's Assembly
National Defence Commission
General Secretary of the Workers' Party of Korea - Which is Sectary of Central Committee of the Workers' Party of Korea (Includes Central Military Commission (DPRK)"According to the WPK Charter, the Central Military Commission directs Party activity in the Korean People's Army and is chaired by the Party General Secretary.")
Supreme Commander of the Korean People's Army
National Defence Commission of North Korea
Composition of the DPRK NDC (for the 2009-2013 term, amended during 2010 WPK Party Conference)
Chairman: Marshal of the DPRK Kim Jong-il (1993-)
Vice Chairmen of the Commission:
Chang Sung-taek, Secretary, WPK Administrative Department
Vice Marshal of the KPA Kim Yong-Chun, Minister of the People's Armed Forces
Vice Marshal of the KPA Ri Yong-mu
General of the Army O Kuk-ryol
Members of the Commission:
Ju Kyu-chang, 1st Deputy Secretary, Department of Military Industries
Vice Marshal of the KPA Ri Yong Ho, Chief of the KPA General Staff
General of the Army Ju Sang-song, Minister of People's Security
General of the Army Kim Jong-gak, 1st Deputy Director, KPA-GPB
General of the Army Choe Ryoe-hae
Colonel General U Tong-chuk
Lieutenant General Choe Kyong-song
Major General Kim Kyong Ok
Reserve Major General Kim Myong-guk
Colonel-Commandant Kim Won-hong
Head of Government
Premier of North Korea
Supreme People's Assembly
President of the Presidium Kim Yong-nam
"The Politburo rules the Party while the Central Committee is not in meeting. It currently has 16 full members, including supreme leader Kim Jong Il and other key leaders Ri Yong-ho, Kim Yong-nam and Choe Yong-rim, and 15 alternate members. It also has the power to propose or commend important state leaders, like the Premier, who are then elected by the Supreme People's Assembly.
The true day-to-day ruling body, however, is the Presidium of the Politburo, made up by 4 members plus Kim Jong-il himself."
Kim Jong-il (General Secretary of the Workers' Party of Korea, Chairman of the National Defence Commission)
Kim Yong-nam (President of the Presidium of the Supreme People's Assembly)
Choe Yong-rim (Premier of North Korea)
Ri Yong-ho (Vice Chairman of the Central Military Commission, Chief of the KPA General Staff)
Kim Yang-gon (alternate)
Kim Yong-il (alt.)
Pak To-chun (alt.)
Choe Ryong-hae (alt.)
Jang Song-thaek (alt.)
Ju Kyu-chang (alt.)
Ri Thae-nam (alt.)
Kim Rak-hui (alt.)
Thae Jong-su (alt.)
Kim Phyong-hae (alt.)
U Tong-chuk (alt.)
Kim Jong-gak (alt.)
Pak Jong-sun (alt.)
Kim Chang-sop (alt.)
Mun Kyong-dok (alt.)
Current Vice Chairmen of the Central Military Commission (DPRK) - Ri Yong-ho, Kim Jong-un
N.Korea's Rule of 4
North Korea Leadership Watch
North Korean leader Kim Jong-il's brother-in-law Jang Song-taek was appointed vice chairman of the powerful National Defense Commission on Monday, making him the effective No.2 in the Stalinist country, South Korean media reported on Tuesday. But defectors who were high-ranking officials in North Korea said Jang was promoted to join a core quartet centering around O Kuk-ryol, also a vice chairman of the NDC, along with Kim Yong-chun and U Dong-chuk.
Defectors and sources in North Korea said power is being divided up as Kim Jong-il's health deteriorates, and at the center of the new power structure is O rather than Jang. One high-ranking source in North Korea said the four-man clique emerged apparently due to Kim's weakening grip on power. There are even rumors that O has assumed part of Kim's jobs of signing and approving official documents as Kim has difficulties taking care of them due to symptoms of dementia and other health problems.
From left, O Kuk-ryol, Jang Song-taek, Kim Yong-chun, and U Dong-chuk From left, O Kuk-ryol, Jang Song-taek, Kim Yong-chun, and U Dong-chuk
North Korea's pillars of power are the Workers' Party, the military and the National Defense Commission, while administrative agencies like the Cabinet and ministries are largely ceremonial. As a result, Kim Yong-nam, the president of the Presidium of the Supreme People's Assembly only wields about the same level of power as a vice director at the Central Committee of the Workers' Party. O wields utmost power over the intelligence service, while Kim Yong-chun, the minister of the People's Armed Forces, controls the military. The powerful State Security Department is led by Kim Jong-il. But due to his ailing health, U Dong-chuk, the senior deputy chief of the State Security Department, effectively controls the organization.
One senior North Korean defector said, "O Kuk-ryol can be viewed as the No. 2 official in North Korea since his confidants Kim Yong-chun, Kim Kyok-sik and Kim Yong-chol have come to dominate the military, while the intelligence and reconnaissance departments have been consolidated."
O is the only official in North Korea who can speak freely with Kim Jong-il and enjoys the leader's absolute trust in him.
The recent death in a mysterious car accident of Ri Je-gang, the first deputy director of the Workers' Party's Organization and Guidance Department, has created a power vacuum in the party. A senior defector said Jang Song-taek "can't be seen as the No. 2 official just because he oversees administrative duties on behalf of Kim Jong-il." Jang could surpass O only if he also oversees the Workers' Party, but there is no chance of that for the time being, and the four-man leadership led by O will continue for now.
Chief of the KPA General Staff - Vice Marshal of the KPA Ri Yong Ho
General Staff Department
updated 16 January 2011
The KPA General Staff Department [GSD] is responsible for the military management of the service branches of the Korean People’s Army. Service branch units comprising the KPA’s integrated forces operate under the command of the KPA Chief of the General Staff. GSD devises strategy and issues orders and guidance to the KPA’s service branches (which include the DPRK’s conventional ground, air, naval and air defense forces). Several bureaus subordinate to GSD are tasked with signals intelligence collection. GSD also provides communications support and military education and training to the DPRK’s military.
GSD s directly subordinate to the National Defense Commission.. GSD is the primary conduit through which the KPA Supreme Command issues orders and guidance, as well as interacts, with KPA service branch commanders. In a general context, military policy and guidance issued by GSD must be obeyed by the other components (GPD, MSC, MPAF) in the KPA. The GSD, however, traditionally does not participate in political, personnel or military security management.
The Vice Chiefs of GSD provide operational and administrative support to the GSD and conduct inspections of military units. GSD Vice Chief has also been used as a title for members of the Party’s Central Military Commission who served as military advisers to Kim Chong-il, or supervisors in one of the KPA’s guidance bureaus.
GSD has nearly 30 subordinate bureaus (which are also called departments) and commands. Within GSD are the country’s naval command (the Korean People’s Navy) and air command (the Korean People’s Air Force). The General Staff Operations Bureau (Operations Department) directs the KPA’s operational planning including ground, naval and air commands. The GSD Operations Bureau also provides general guidance and management over KPA training and other military exercises.
The GSD’s Communications Bureau conducts foreign and domestic signals intelligence collection. The GSD Electronic Warfare Bureau manages electronic and electronic information warfare, in conjunction with the GSD Communications Bureau and other KPA and NDC organizations.
The GSD Training Bureau and the GSD Publication Bureau are responsible for administration and management of the DPRK’s military training, including military universities, officers’ and command schools. The President of Kim Il Sung Military University (Academy) has traditionally held the title of Vice Chief of GSD. The GSD Training Bureau also manages a group of military studies institutes that research and analyze strategy, doctrine, operational art and military history.
Other GSD bureaus are responsible for supplying weapons, equipment and transportation. GSD also owns at least one foreign trading corporation.
The KPA General Staff Department interfaces with MPAF, which has responsibility for general administration and guidance within the KPA, via the National Defense Commission. The Chief of GSD and the director of the GSD Operations Bureau (Department) historically and traditionally interact informally and directly with the KPA Supreme Command.
The GSD’s subordinate bureaus link to the Second Economic Committee (Second Economy Commission) and the Party Central Military Commission [CMC] to process its equipment, weapons, transportation needs. To complete its intelligence collection tasks, GSD links to the State Security Department (Ministry of State Security) and the NDC’s Reconnaissance General Bureau’s 1st and 2nd Bureaus. The GSD also links to the 44th Bureau of the MPAF which coordinates foreign currency earning activities in the KPA.
Command and Reportage
Yi Yong Ho (KPA VMar) is current Chief of the KPA General Staff, appointed in February 2009 following a meeting of the KPA’s political committee. In September 2010 VMarYi was elected one Vice Chairman of the CMC, as well as a member of the Party Central Committee (CC KWP) Political Bureau Presidium. The placement of the Chief of GSD in several places in the party hierarchy formally links the party’s control over military affairs and demonstrates the GSD’s importance in the regime’s political calculations.
Central Military Commission (http://nkleadershipwatch.files.wordp...pg?w=600&h=475)
National Defense Commission
The Party Central Military Commission [CMC] is responsible for the development and implementation of the Korean Workers’ Party’s military policies. It coordinates and directs the KPA’s logistics and military production orders. The CMC links with the KPA General Political Department, the CC KWP Military Department, the CC KWP Military Industry Department. The CMC also links to the CC KWP Civil Defense Department for indoctrination and guidance on the DPRK’s paramilitary reserve training units.
The CMC was first established in June 1950, by the Supreme People’s Assembly. It was responsible for war time government management of the KPA. The CMC was disbanded after the Korean (Fatherland Liberation) War. It was revived in the 1960s between the 4th Party Congress and 2nd Party Conference. It established Kim Il-song’s 4 Military Lines gained political control over the KPA. Until the 1990s the CMC was responsible for command and control of the KPA, which eventually migrated to the National Defense Commission.
According to Section 27 of the KWP Charter:
The Military Committee of the party Central Committee discusses and decides on the party’s military policy and methods of its execution; organizes work to strengthen military industries, the people’s militia, and all armed forces; and directs the military establishment of the country.
At the 3rd Party Conference and September 2010 CC KWP Plenum the membership numbers on the CMC were expanded by one. The position of Vice Chairman was restored and split between VMar Yi Yong Ho (Chief of the KPA General Staff) and Kim Chong-un [Kim Jong Un], KCI’s 3rd son and hereditary successor. Chong-un was also given the rank of General (Taejang) and Yi promoted to Vice Marshal hours ahead of the party convocations in September 2010.
All but three CMC Members (KCI; Kim Yong-chun and Kim Myong-kuk) elected between 1980 and 1997 were retained in September 2010. VMar Cho Myong-nok migrated to the CC KWP Political Bureau Presidium; Mar Kim Chol-man and Mar Yi Ul-sol retired from the CMC, but retained membership on the Party Central Committee (CC KWP). VMar Yi Ha-il (former director of the CC KWP Military Department) retired. Neither Col Gen Kim Kang-hwan nor Col Gen Choe Sang-uk appeared on lists of CMC Members or CC KWP Members or Alternate Members.
Of the CMC’s current members: (a.) 9 are Vice Chairmen or Members of the National Defense Commission (b.) 7 hold security or intelligence-related positions (c.) 6 hold positions which reside in the MPAF/KPA chain of command. (d.) 9 members of the CMC are also members or alternate members of the CC KWP Political Bureau
North Korean Constitution - April 2009The National Defense Commission [NDC] is the DPRK’s highest branch of government and the country’s supreme policymaking organization. With the NDC Chairman positioned as the DPRK government’s supreme leader, the NDC directs and guides all military, defense and security-related affairs including policies, planning, acquisition and procurement and personnel. The NDC also provides guidance and direction to seemingly non-military/non-defense-related matters including foreign policy/diplomacy, energy (oil/coal) and the civilian (or 1st) economy [a.k.a. the people’s economy].
Article 100 of the DPRK Constitution establishes the NDC Chairman as “the supreme leader of the DPRK.” Article 103 establishes the NDC Chairman’s powers to:
1. Guide overall affairs of the state.
2. Directly guide the work of the NDC.
3. Appoint or dismiss important cadres of the national defense sector.
4. Ratify or abrogate significant treaties concluded with other countries.
5. Exercise the right to grant special pardons.
6. Declare a state of emergency and state of war in the country, and issue orders for mobilization.
Article 106 of the DPRK Constitution defines the NDC as “the supreme national defense organ of state sovereignty” with Article 109 defining the NDC’s powers to:
1. Establish important policies of the state for carrying out the military-first revolutionary line.
2. Guide the overall armed forces and defense-building work of the state.
3. Supervise the status of executing the orders of the chairman of the DPRK NDC and the decisions and directives of the NDC, and establish relevant measures.
4. Rescind the decisions and directives of state organs that run counter to the orders of the chairman of the DPRK NDC and to the decisions and directives of the NDC.
5. Establish or abolish central organs of the national defense sector.
6. Institute military titles and confer military titles above the general-grade officer rank.
The NDC consists of a Chairman, Vice-Chairmen and Members who are elected [appointed] by and hold the same term of office as the Supreme People’s Assembly [SPA] which has technically and traditionally been five  years. Since the 10th SPA in 1998 the NDC has operated as a collective body gathering senior principals of the DPRK’s national security community to deliberate and disseminate policy. However, it is not clear when or if the NDC convenes formal meetings. NDC Vice-Chairmen and Members are typically a combination of active duty KPA and civilians representing the KPA’s regular service commands, the political officer corps, internal security and military [munitions] industry.
Since 2009 three key security organizations are technically subordinate to the NDC:
The Ministry of People’s Armed Forces [MPAF] is the central administrative and logistical organization for the KPA’s service branches and commands. MPAF also contains the management agencies of military and political control in the KPA. The KPA General Staff Department [GSD] is responsible for command and control of the KPA’s conventional ground, air and naval forces. GSD subordinate bureaus are responsible for military planning, operations, training as well as processing acquisition and procurement orders. The MPAF is directly subordinate to the NDC with the technical channels for orders and guidance originating with the NDC Chairman (concurrently the KPA Supreme Commander) to the MPAF to GSD.
The Ministry of State Security [MSS] directs political security (secret police) within the DPRK. MSS subordinate bureaus direct investigations and surveillance on DPRK citizens within the country for attitudes and behaviors. It monitors foreigners and DPRK citizens born outside the country (particularly the DPRK’s near abroad in ROK, China and Japan). The MSS 7th Bureau or Prison Bureau, manages a network of labor camps, detention facilities and geographically isolated towns inhabited by DPRK citizens and their families for anti-state or unsanctioned political, economic or cultural activities. MSS has several units located outside the DPRK which are responsible for intelligence collection. It also provides guard service and personal security at DPRK embassies and missions abroad.
The Ministry of People’s Security [MPS] directs the country’s domestic law enforcement agencies, including the Korean People’s Interior Security Forces [KPISF] and provincial and local police departments. It conducts criminal investigations and financial audits, household and lodging inspections (i.e., population surveillance), polices roads, guards public buildings and monuments and manages customs control. MPS construction units build tunnels and maintain roads. The MPS provides security for central and provincial members of the leadership. It also coordinates with Ministry of Post and Telecom to maintain and staff telephone lines used by party and government leaders in Pyongyang and the provinces.
Within the NDC apparatus are several known departments and sections, including:
NDC Administration Department: The NDC Administration Department is responsible for the NDC’s daily administrative and financial management (including oversight of SOEs), and provides general guidance in these areas to the Ministry of People’s Armed Forces (MPAF) and the General Staff Department. NDC Administration may also coordinate interactions between the NDC, the DPRK Cabinet, State Planning Commission and Second Economy Commission. The previous director, Yi Myo’ng-su (KPA Gen), was appointed Minister of People’s Security after the 4th session of the 12th Supreme People’s Assembly. According to unconfirmed reports in ROK media, Yi was replaced by Kim Cho’ng-u’n.
NDC Standing Bureau (NDC Presidium): The NDC Standing Bureau coordinates logistical and security arrangements in support visits and inspections by Kim Cho’ng-il and members of the central leadership to KPA units, performances and economic production sites. The director of the Standing Bureau is Hyo’n Ch’o’l-hae (KPA Gen), regularly seen attending to Kim Cho’ng-il and previously a deputy director of the KPA General Political Department.
NDC Foreign Affairs Department: The NDC Foreign Affairs Department handles some foreign policymaking responsibilities. It also serves as Kim Cho’ng-il’s protocol office. The director is Cho’n Hu’i-ch’ong, previously KCI’s chief of protocol and a former DPRK diplomat.
NDC Reconnaissance General Bureau: The NDC RGB manages much of the DPRK’s intelligence community and links to the CC KWP United Front Department. It coordinates the DPRK’s intelligence collection and operations concerning the ROK and Japan.
Taepu’ng International Investment Group: Taepu’ng was repurposed in 2010 to manage the DPRK’s foreign investments. Prior to 2010, Taepu’ng was an energy contractor to the NDC.
The National Defense Commission was created in 1972, with a group of commissions subordinate to the Central People’s Committee, as part of the 1972 DPRK Constitution. The NDC was chartered in Chapter VII, Article 105:
The Central People’s Committee establishes a Domestic Policy Commission, a Foreign Policy Commission, a National Defense Commission, a Justice and Security Commission and other respective commissions to assist in its work.
The President of the DPRK (Kim Il Sung) was NDC Chairman, according to Chapter 6, Article 93:
The President of the DPRK is the supreme commander of all the armed forces of the DPRK and the Chairman of the National Defense Commission, and commands all the armed forces of the State.
The first National Defense Commission consisted of four members (Kim Il Sung; Choe Hyon; O Jin U; and O Paek Ryong). In 1992 the DPRK Constitution was amended to make the National Defense Commission a branch of government, second in power to the DPRK President. Kim Jong Il was elected NDC Chairman at the 3rd plenum of the 9th SPA in 1993. The NDC became the DPRK government’s executive body at the 1st plenum of the 10th SPA in 1998.
Upon officially succeeding his father between 1997 and 1998, Kim Jong-il elected not to take the title DPRK President (a/k/a President of the Republic). Instead, Kim Il-sung was made the Eternal President of the DPRK and the President of the Presidium (Standing Committee) of the Supreme People’s Assembly became the nominal head of state.
At the 10th Supreme People’s Assembly, newly installed SPA Presideium President Kim Yong-nam spoke to the powers of the NDC Chair:
The NDC chairmanship is the highest post of the state with which to organize and lead the work of defending the state system of the socialist country and the destinies of the people and strengthening and increasing the defense capabilities of the country and the state power as a whole through command over all the political, military and economic forces of the country. It is also a sacred, important post which symbolizes and represents the honor of our country and the dignity of the nation. For Kim Jong Il to continue to take the heavy responsibilities as NDC Chairman and lead the work of national defense for the supreme interests of the state is a requirement of the Korean revolution and a unanimous desire of the Korean people who have deeply felt his greatness in the practice of the protracted revolutionary struggle and who have cherished absolute trust in him through this.
The changes made to the DPRK Constitution in April 2009 formalized the NDC’s role in the DPRK government. It also establishes a formal management system that can assume interim control in the event KJI can not physically carry out his duties. It could establish a support system if a hereditary ruler is named to succeed Kim Jong-il as DPRK leader.
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Last edited by Dago; 19 Dec 11, at 06:33.
I am certainly not the only one worried about what will come out of it..but I can't help to think to myself what a bad year this was to be a dictator. Considering all the other crap (like the economy), that has to count for something.
damn, I could have shorted the stock and make some money out of this.Asian stocks and U.S. index futures fell, with South Korean shares tumbling as much as 5 percent, and the dollar gained after the announcement. The Korean won fell 1.8 percent.
“the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson
Well, now things get really interesting. Probably a period of quiet while the various factions circle each other & size up their chances. Then....who the hell knows. Its the DPRK. Opaque doesn't begin to describe the place. Just glad I'm here. This has all gone on to long & too badly to end well for the ordinary folk. The only question is just how bad bad gets.
Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C
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