Conservatives are the New Liberals?

**bigross86** · 21 Nov 11,, 20:50

Universities have always been the hotbed of new ideas and movements which many times lead to revolution and uprising attempts for a few reasons: At universities the students are told to open their minds and broaden their horizons, students are taught new things they never knew existed, and are stupid enough to not know that most revolutions fail, and so decide to try it anyway.

For the above reasons, grassroots movements such as Communism/Socialism found a receptive audience in university students. It was new, it went against the grain, and no one told them it wouldn't work, so they tried it anyway.

Recently, I've begun to notice that many of my lecturers are as Communist/Socialist and as Marxist as they come, and most of the class agrees with what they are saying. However, there are a core few of us, and more and more I've been discovering others who share our views, that are willing to stand up to lecturers and argue the counterpoint, for the side of personal Vs shared responsibility, for capitalism Vs communism/socialism, for personal goals, wealth and gains as opposed to social welfare. The problem is that many of the people that share our viewpoints do not want to speak up for whatever reasons they have.

Could we be seeing a paradigm shift, where the liberals of before have become the conservatives, those unwilling to shift in their viewpoints and outlook, while the conservatives of before have become the new liberals, those willing to go against the grain and stand up and speak out for something they believe is right even against pressure from the professors and their peers, the students?

Kinda makes you think, doesn't it?

**Mihais** · 21 Nov 11,, 21:18

+1
Noticed this at my GF's faculty.You ain't alone.It's not really surprising,since world moves in cycles.
But I noticed something else.All these empty suits like to believe they're independent thinkers,at the same time parroting one another.All these are ''citizens of the world'' and of course,all of them are ''special''.All of them.Btw,all of them oppose PC,at lip service level,anyway,and all of them are non-conformists.Them being ''independent thinkers'' of course don't realize they look and act like a well drilled platoon of the yore.

**Red Team** · 21 Nov 11,, 22:31

In a way that is pretty true. I mean I'm guessing the US is still largely Conservative by world standards, but on the whole, my peers, with a few exceptions, are fairly progressive. Whether it's a good or bad thing is really a matter of perspective.

**Mihais** · 21 Nov 11,, 23:17

Rotten capitalists of the world,unite.

What's fascinating is that those responsible and actually competent are now in the position of a revolutionary movement.In the long run,revolutionaries win,mainly because they're the aggressive minority.
What's unique and truly monumental is that ''capitalists'' haven't been the underdogs since the 1500's.

**The Black Ghost** · 23 Nov 11,, 22:12

Social values and beliefs swing back and forth like a pendulum. If there is a strong enough established way of thinking, there will be a counterculture to confront it eventually. This has happened before many times in history. In the early 1900s there was a strongly established conservative lifestyle, but the 20s represented a counterculture movement. Subsequently, this movement would go back to a more conservative culture in the next generation (the 40s and 50s), the 60s and 70s represent a backlash to that ideology. Today might just be the pendulum swinging back, who knows? Politics also mimics social beliefs, its a good way to measure things. That's why we see periodic shifts from left-right in the political arena ever few decades.

**Doktor** · 23 Nov 11,, 22:14

Originally Posted by The Black Ghost

That's why we see periodic shifts from left-right in the political arena ever few decades.

Thanks for explaining to me why Dems are Blue and Reps are Red. Was bugging me for some time.

**Bigfella** · 24 Nov 11,, 07:34

BR,

Not sure how to break this to you, but you are a generation too late. I suspect this is one of those things a lot of people think at a lot of times because they most clearly see their own circumstances. Your statement just as accurately (perhaps more accurately) describes the 1980s, when young Reaganite conservatives & evangelicals were struggling with the hangover of the 60s & 70s. I'm guessing that being a conservative of any stripe at universitis in the 80s was lonely at the start but less so at the end. Indeed, there was an element of self-conception as 'subversive' among those groups - neo liberalism was very definately a form of 'radicalism' & you could argue the same about aspects of political evangelicamism. I saw the tail end of that in Australia in the late 80s & early 90s as right wing student groups became more assertive. I would argue that conservative student groups of all sorts are a good deal larger & assertive now than they were 20-30 years ago. As JAD has eloquently explained elsewhere, young people tend to lean left so universities will be left of the mainstream. That mainstream, in turn, is dramatically more right wing than it was 30 years ago.

It also strikes me that you are painting 'your' side in a particular light vs 'them'. I don't doubt the genuiness of your beliefs, but you should accord others the same respect, even if they are wrong (as I frequently believe you are). They probably see themselves as a minority speaking out in a world dominated by conservatives & corporations. Perception is a wonderful thing.

**bigross86** · 24 Nov 11,, 10:43

I'm painting this as a Them Vs Me, because that's what it is. On a larger scale, they may indeed be a minority in a conservative world, but in the university world, especially in Israel, where the majority of staff, lecturers and professors are left wing, the conservatives are the minority.

**Bigfella** · 24 Nov 11,, 14:26

Originally Posted by bigross86

I'm painting this as a Them Vs Me, because that's what it is.

Perhaps I was unclear. My point was not that you are doing that, but that you are painting the 'them' as intransigent because they won't see the world you way, while you are 'standing up for what you believe is right'. I'm simply pointing out that they may very well see it the same way & see you as 'intransigent' & ultimately taking the easier course because you are aligning yourselves wiht much more powerful forces than a few uni students & their lecturers. it is one thing to say that you think they are wrong, but the implication is that they are also somehow less than you because of it.

On a larger scale, they may indeed be a minority in a conservative world, but in the university world, especially in Israel, where the majority of staff, lecturers and professors are left wing, the conservatives are the minority.

Been that way for a fair while now, not sure it is the basis for some shift in the 'liberal/conservative' paradigm. Certainly nothing new.

**FJV** · 24 Nov 11,, 21:06

However, there are a core few of us, and more and more I've been discovering others who share our views, that are willing to stand up to lecturers and argue the counterpoint, for the side of personal Vs shared responsibility, for capitalism Vs communism/socialism, for personal goals, wealth and gains as opposed to social welfare.

This does not neccesarily make someone a conservative.

The person could be libertarian, which in some areas is the opposed to conservatism.

**Mihais** · 24 Nov 11,, 21:35

Nevertheless,the enemy of the enemy is my friend.

**FJV** · 24 Nov 11,, 21:43

Originally Posted by Mihais

Nevertheless,the enemy of the enemy is my friend.

Some friends turn out to be worse than enemies.

**GVChamp** · 29 Nov 11,, 00:53

Your professors are actually reasonably intelligent. The stupid ones are the students, especially the Republican-haters that think Republicans are too blame for everything. Explain to them, for instance, that the US federal government has the MOST progressive tax system in the world, IE taxes the rich the most, and you'll draw blank stares at best and angry reactions at worst. Explain to them that US banks are smaller and MORE regulated than European banks, and you'll be laughed at. Explain to them that Obama's health plan is essentially stolen from the Republican Party, and you get conspiracy theories about insurance company influence. Explain to them that cap and trade was invented by Republicans to handle SO2 emissions, and you will get some response about how sulfur dioxide is made by Martians or something.

College students are very, very, very dumb. But that's what you get when the government subsidizes children to sit in the middle of a corn field to drink alcohol and fuck.

You didn't really think the purpose of college was to get an education, did you?

**TopHatter** · 29 Nov 11,, 01:38

Originally Posted by GVChamp

College students are very, very, very dumb. But that's what you get when the government subsidizes children to sit in the middle of a corn field to drink alcohol and fuck.

If I had the money, I'd take out full-page ads in every newspaper, news site, and blog that I could find, and print the above in huge bold type.

**bigross86** · 29 Nov 11,, 08:47

Originally Posted by GVChamp

Your professors are actually reasonably intelligent. The stupid ones are the students, especially the Republican-haters that think Republicans are too blame for everything. Explain to them, for instance, that the US federal government has the MOST progressive tax system in the world, IE taxes the rich the most, and you'll draw blank stares at best and angry reactions at worst. Explain to them that US banks are smaller and MORE regulated than European banks, and you'll be laughed at. Explain to them that Obama's health plan is essentially stolen from the Republican Party, and you get conspiracy theories about insurance company influence. Explain to them that cap and trade was invented by Republicans to handle SO2 emissions, and you will get some response about how sulfur dioxide is made by Martians or something.

College students are very, very, very dumb. But that's what you get when the government subsidizes children to sit in the middle of a corn field to drink alcohol and fuck.

You didn't really think the purpose of college was to get an education, did you?

That was a beautiful rant except for one thing: I'm in Israel...