I know the feelingOriginally Posted by Officer of Engineers
Socialism is simply the Collective denial of responsibility.
The human mind cannot grasp the causes of phenomena in the aggregate. But the need to find these causes is inherent in mans soul. And the human intellect, without investigating the multiplicity and complexity of the conditions of phenomena, any one of which taken separately may seem to be the cause, snatches at the first, the most intelligible approximation to a cause, and says: This is the cause!"
-Leo Tolstoy
War and Peace
So you're learning how to do my one liners!
Chimo
Well, no, the Colonel might say something like : "Go away you little piece of shit."
Wherein, Pari will say something like : "My good man, please leave here and eviscerate a dead parrot."
So go away, you little piece of shit.
Chimo
...rather eviscerate a dead parrot.....grumble...
You have one liners?
Socialism is simply the Collective denial of responsibility.
That can indeed be arranged my dear chap, where shall I send the parrot?
...rather eviscerate a dead parrot.....grumble...
Socialism is simply the Collective denial of responsibility.
Usually attached with hook and sinker.
Down his throat or up his butt.
Chimo
I always took you for a 'stick of dynamite and a large net' sort of bloke
Socialism is simply the Collective denial of responsibility.
Please point out the laws that show systematic punishment of ISRAELI ARABS.Not really, since Israel seems quite willing to punish entire populations for the acts of a few... don't like that standard don't use it.
That's right, and the Shin Bet's settler unit, a unit that has blossomed over time into a massive unit arrests them, sends them to trial and they are sent to jail. There is no favoritism.You know that standard thing... here is a good example of it. A large number of Jews have aided and abetted terrorists as well.... be that as it may they do not enjoy every single right a Jew does.
For the love of cthulhu! Let me see if I can get this through to you: YOU DON'T NEED TO BE JEWISH TO EMIGRATE TO ISRAEL If you are Jewish, you can emigrate without a problem, but that does not mean that non-Jews can't emigrate to Israel. Over the summer I worked at a law firm whose focus was relocation and immigration law. That's right, helping people emigrate into Israel. Why would such a law firm need to exist if non-Jews weren't welcome?I don't see any racial requirement above, but I see it in israel's [policy...
You figure people emigrating from Aus would speak English, but immigrating to they might not. The problem is Israel doesn't care about skills or toungue but race and religion.
Hmmm.... Israeli Arabs are currently ~20% of Israel's population. 13 of 120 members of the Knesset are Israeli Arabs, putting it at a little over 10% of the Knesset are Israeli Arabs. With approximately 60% of Israeli Arabs old enough to vote, that comes out to 12% of the Israeli population being Israeli Arabs of voting age. Assuming every single one of the actually goes and votes (not likely), that means that (get this, it's gonna surprise the hell out of you) Israeli Arabs have proportional representation according to their size of the population! I know, it surprised me too!Your cherry picking, lets look at overall representation in government, poverty rates, rates of employment etc...
Israeli Supreme court is usually 12 judges (don't ask me why...). One of those judges is an Israeli Arab that's also a Christian. Holey underwear, batman! You mean to tell me that the Supreme Court also proportionally represents all Israeli Arabs of voting age?! Say it ain't so!!!
Sweet Jesus, you just don't stop, do you? Where did I even mention the West Bank or East Jerusalem? I'm dealing with Israeli Arabs, the Palestinians can fuck off as far as this conversation is concerned. Israeli Arabs DO enjoy ALL same rights as Jews (my fingers are gonna fall off if I have to type that again), and we're not dealing with the "occupied territories". Jews and Arabs don't have different legal systems, don't have different water allotments, don't have different rights to political speech, don't have different rights of movement. Every single thing you just mentioned might be true regarding Palestinians, it is a load of bull regarding Israeli Arabs. So far, the only person trying to confuse the subject by bringing the Palestinians into the picture is you!As usual your tryign to conflate Israeli discrimination in Israel and Israeli apartheid policy in the West Bank and East Jerusalem usign one to cover the other. Israeli Arabs are second class citizens becuase they do not enjoy the ALL same rights as Jews. However Israeli policies in the occupied territories are a different matter. Jews and Arabs have different legal systems, different access to services, different water allotments, different rights to political speech, different rights of movement.... And the group with the most rights is the minority.
Please explain to me how the group with the most rights is the minority. Did math reinvent itself while I was sleeping last night? There are ~5,865,300 Jews, ~1,597,300 Arabs, ~318,200 "others" (family members of Jewish immigrants who are not registered at the Interior Ministry as Jews, non-Arab Christians, non-Arab Muslims and residents who do not have a religious classification). There are ~2,311,000 Palestinians in the West Bank and ~1,552,000 in Gaza. So now let's run the numbers, shall we? Even if you decide to put Jews on one side and EVERYONE else on the other side, you still have ~5,865,300 Jews and ~5,778,500 EVERYONE ELSE. That means that Jews are still the majority, even if you want to count everyone else in the State of Israel and the "occupied territories".
Not racist- banning Palestinian immigration is...So, would you like all the facts or would you like to keep living in your little fantasy world? The Citizenship and Entry Into Israel Law states that a Palestinian may be granted citizenship through marriage if he/she is a person "who identifies with the State of Israel and its goals, when he or a member of his family has taken concrete action to advance the security, economy or any other matter important to the State." Shocking that we don't want to allow people with terrorist sympathies into Israel if we can help it, right? Now, before you play the "but you let Jewish terrorists in" card, just look at the numbers. How many Palestinians terrorists are there, how many Jewish terrorists are there? Where do you think there is more likelihood of one actually being a terrorist, Israel or Palestinian lands? And guess what, when the Palestinians do eventually get their own state, they have declared that Jews will not be allowed in. That seems kinda racist to me, but perhaps your apologetic reasoning can find come up with an excuse why it's perfectly acceptable to make a state Judenrein. I sure as shit can't.
To continue, the law was then amended in 2005 to restrict citizenship and residence in Israel only to Palestinian men over the age of 35, and Palestinian women over the age of 25. There's a simple reason for that: Studies show that involvement in terror attacks declines with age. This amendment from 2005, removes restrictions from a full half of the Palestinian population requesting legal status through marriage in Israel. This law was upheld by a High Court decision in 2006. That's right, the same Supreme Court that was time and again foiled government plans and actions because they are racist and discriminatory or because they are illegal, such as the Neighbor Procedure. So, the highest law in Israel which has declared itself and proven itself time and again to be impartial has declared this law legal. Is that good enough for Zraver? I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say no...
That's right. We have us a weekly cross burning in the dorms and some of my best friends at Uni aren't Christians, they just say they are because they have an inferiority complex and they like being stepped all over.Correct, Israeli Arabs and Palestinians are different issues. And those other fathers are not really material to the discussion. Christians might be, as they do face discrimination in Israel, but its minor and more often tied to race than creed.
As I said before, I'm not getting into the West Bank discussion, we've had that one already. This is new, your insistence that Israel is an Apartheid state well within its own borders and with regards to Israel Arabs, and like I've said before, it is a bogus claim.
No, you seem to be slightly confused. I am not in support of the hard right in Israel, as a matter of fact I'm probably one of the most centrist people you'll ever find when trying to discuss the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I've looked at both sides, and even had opportunity to argue both sides. I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong, as I've done before even to you, and I condemn illegal actions committed by the hard right. Perhaps you missed my last post where I called them nutjobs? I may be prejudiced against Palestinians, but that seems to be a natural extension of an entire Palestinian nature wanting to kill me and my friends, regardless of who started. But perhaps you missed my last post to Bigfella outlining why Israel wants peace more than the Palestinians ever will. No one wants peace more than me, and I'm the perfect candidate to actually make that peace because I'm honest enough to look at it objectively.Ben, you've been outspoken in your support of the hard right in Israel.
Your problem is that you are so outspoken in your support of the Palestinians that you have already lost sight of the center and of objectivity. You've never once admitted to being wrong even in the face of overwhelming proof. Instead you'll just rehash your points in ever increasing and longer posts.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.
In the occupied territories and Gaza, its government policy not nessicerily internal policy.
No favoritism.... do we really want to compare umbers again?That's right, and the Shin Bet's settler unit, a unit that has blossomed over time into a massive unit arrests them, sends them to trial and they are sent to jail. There is no favoritism.
Emigrate means to leave, imigrate means to arrive...For the love of cthulhu! Let me see if I can get this through to you: YOU DON'T NEED TO BE JEWISH TO EMIGRATE TO ISRAEL If you are Jewish, you can emigrate without a problem, but that does not mean that non-Jews can't emigrate to Israel. Over the summer I worked at a law firm whose focus was relocation and immigration law. That's right, helping people emigrate into Israel. Why would such a law firm need to exist if non-Jews weren't welcome?
They are 20% of the population and about 10% of the Knesset... age shouldn't be a factor.Hmmm.... Israeli Arabs are currently ~20% of Israel's population. 13 of 120 members of the Knesset are Israeli Arabs, putting it at a little over 10% of the Knesset are Israeli Arabs. With approximately 60% of Israeli Arabs old enough to vote, that comes out to 12% of the Israeli population being Israeli Arabs of voting age. Assuming every single one of the actually goes and votes (not likely), that means that (get this, it's gonna surprise the hell out of you) Israeli Arabs have proportional representation according to their size of the population! I know, it surprised me too!
Proportional would be 2 not 1...Israeli Supreme court is usually 12 judges (don't ask me why...). One of those judges is an Israeli Arab that's also a Christian. Holey underwear, batman! You mean to tell me that the Supreme Court also proportionally represents all Israeli Arabs of voting age?! Say it ain't so!!!
Since you asked, "Sweet Jesus, you just don't stop, do you? Where did I even mention the West Bank or East Jerusalem? I'm dealing with Israeli Arabs, the Palestinians can fuck off as far as this conversation is concerned. Israeli Arabs DO enjoy ALL same rights as Jews (my fingers are gonna fall off if I have to type that again), and we're not dealing with the "occupied territories". Jews and Arabs don't have different legal systems, don't have different water allotments, don't have different rights to political speech, don't have different rights of movement. Every single thing you just mentioned might be true regarding Palestinians, it is a load of bull regarding Israeli Arabs. So far, the only person trying to confuse the subject by bringing the Palestinians into the picture is you!
I'll tell you how: You're talking nonsense, and it's out of respect for you that I don't say that you're full of shit. Whatever argument you might think you have falls dead in the water as soon as you bother to actually take a look at life in Israel. In essence, when you claim that Israeli Arabs don't have the same rights as Jews, you're claiming Apartheid against Israel's own citizens. Even though I've done it before, I'll do it again to show you how stupid that analogy is, just look at the chart I'm attaching."
Your words, since I had not mentioned aparthied as attached to Israeli Arabs I drew the distiction between the two groups.
And now your deliberately conflating again, that comment was clearly made in refrence to the occupied territories not inside Israel. In the occupied territories the jews are a minority.Please explain to me how the group with the most rights is the minority. Did math reinvent itself while I was sleeping last night? There are ~5,865,300 Jews, ~1,597,300 Arabs, ~318,200 "others" (family members of Jewish immigrants who are not registered at the Interior Ministry as Jews, non-Arab Christians, non-Arab Muslims and residents who do not have a religious classification). There are ~2,311,000 Palestinians in the West Bank and ~1,552,000 in Gaza. So now let's run the numbers, shall we? Even if you decide to put Jews on one side and EVERYONE else on the other side, you still have ~5,865,300 Jews and ~5,778,500 EVERYONE ELSE. That means that Jews are still the majority, even if you want to count everyone else in the State of Israel and the "occupied territories".
Jews and the non-Jewish spouses of Jews are not required to pass those requirements, forgien workers and refugees are not required to pass that test- its racist. its one thing to filter out radicals and sympathizers and another to pass a blanket ban that requires someone to move from non-actor either way to actor that may put them at serious risk of repercussions. Fatah and Hamas both execute people they see as friendly to Israel.So, would you like all the facts or would you like to keep living in your little fantasy world? The Citizenship and Entry Into Israel Law states that a Palestinian may be granted citizenship through marriage if he/she is a person "who identifies with the State of Israel and its goals, when he or a member of his family has taken concrete action to advance the security, economy or any other matter important to the State." Shocking that we don't want to allow people with terrorist sympathies into Israel if we can help it, right? Now, before you play the "but you let Jewish terrorists in" card, just look at the numbers. How many Palestinians terrorists are there, how many Jewish terrorists are there? Where do you think there is more likelihood of one actually being a terrorist, Israel or Palestinian lands? And guess what, when the Palestinians do eventually get their own state, they have declared that Jews will not be allowed in. That seems kinda racist to me, but perhaps your apologetic reasoning can find come up with an excuse why it's perfectly acceptable to make a state Judenrein. I sure as shit can't.
Did you bother to wonder why militancy decliens with age? Becuase the would be militants are now to busy supporting families... jobs work better than jails.To continue, the law was then amended in 2005 to restrict citizenship and residence in Israel only to Palestinian men over the age of 35, and Palestinian women over the age of 25. There's a simple reason for that: Studies show that involvement in terror attacks declines with age. This amendment from 2005, removes restrictions from a full half of the Palestinian population requesting legal status through marriage in Israel. This law was upheld by a High Court decision in 2006. That's right, the same Supreme Court that was time and again foiled government plans and actions because they are racist and discriminatory or because they are illegal, such as the Neighbor Procedure. So, the highest law in Israel which has declared itself and proven itself time and again to be impartial has declared this law legal. Is that good enough for Zraver? I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say no...
Ya lets go straight to extremes....That's right. We have us a weekly cross burning in the dorms and some of my best friends at Uni aren't Christians, they just say they are because they have an inferiority complex and they like being stepped all over.
UNHCR | Refworld | Israel: Situation of Christians; anti-missionary legislation and its use in practice; activities of Yad L'Achim in relation to Christians, Jehovah's Witnesses and Messianic Jews
Realitvely minor like I said, but real like I said.
Show me where I've claimed Israel is an aparthied state inside of its own borders (except when it claims the occupied territories are part of Israel). Inside israel proper I've merely pointed out that Israeli-Arabs are not full equals. This takes 4 primary forms- access to JNF lands and the JNF control of land belonging to Arabs sold to them by Israel in the 1950's and Israel's refusal to honor Arab deeds. 2- Immigration policies, 3- access to veterans benefits, 4- a prior history of official policies that have created a situation that fosters poverty and unemployment.As I said before, I'm not getting into the West Bank discussion, we've had that one already. This is new, your insistence that Israel is an Apartheid state well within its own borders and with regards to Israel Arabs, and like I've said before, it is a bogus claim.
Really... name one centrist posistion you support?No, you seem to be slightly confused. I am not in support of the hard right in Israel, as a matter of fact I'm probably one of the most centrist people you'll ever find when trying to discuss the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Since you just declared that the entire Palestinian nation/nature (typo?) wants to kill you and your friends... hardly objective. Nor do I think Israel wants peace, at least not a just peace. The Palestinians and Israelis are entitled to 100% of the land they had before the 1967 war- period full stop. Israel only wants to give them 90%, and will only give them that if they agree to a set of conditions. That is called extortion. Nor has Israel acted in other ways designed to foster peace. The Palestinians were not party to the 1967 War. The Golan Heights are a different story.I've looked at both sides, and even had opportunity to argue both sides. I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong, as I've done before even to you, and I condemn illegal actions committed by the hard right. Perhaps you missed my last post where I called them nutjobs? I may be prejudiced against Palestinians, but that seems to be a natural extension of an entire Palestinian nature wanting to kill me and my friends, regardless of who started. But perhaps you missed my last post to Bigfella outlining why Israel wants peace more than the Palestinians ever will. No one wants peace more than me, and I'm the perfect candidate to actually make that peace because I'm honest enough to look at it objectively.
Go back a couple of pages and you see me admit a mistake. Nor am I a supporter of the Palestinians per se, I support justice. You've made the claim over and over again that Israel is a just actor, but I've not been presented with a shred of proof to support that claim. We had a similar argument a few months ago where we went over the case of a Palestinian man who was either severely beaten or murdered by settlers and how Israel still hasn't put his attacker in jail. Or how no one got prosecuted for well poisonings, destruction of generators, or the destruction of orchards and confiscation of livestock. Not to mention that in Gaza prior to the flotilla incident the ICRC was very clear that the list of banned items had created a situation of chronic malnutrition among Gaza's children. They were eating diets too high in sugars and fats but way too low in nutrients. In part becuase Israel banned the importation of items needed to sustain vegtable crops like green house parts, fertilizers and pesticides. Sure I agree whole heartedly that wholesale importation of amonium nitrate would be stupid. But there are other nitrates and means of delivery.Your problem is that you are so outspoken in your support of the Palestinians that you have already lost sight of the center and of objectivity. You've never once admitted to being wrong even in the face of overwhelming proof. Instead you'll just rehash your points in ever increasing and longer posts.
THIS WILL BE MY LAST POST ON THE TOPIC, SCHOOL HAS STARTED AGAIN AND I CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO REHASH AN ARGUMENT WE'VE HAD DOZENS OF TIMES ALREADY
But we're not dealing with the "Occupied Territories", how many times do I have to repeat that until you understand? We're dealing with two distinct groups: Israeli Arabs and Palestinians, and this current discussion is regarding Israeli Arabs, not the Palestinians. I don't know how much simpler I can make it so you will understands.
What numbers? Settlers are prosecuted just as severely as Palestinians. There are more Palestinians arrests because there are more Palestinians committing crimes than settlers.No favoritism.... do we really want to compare umbers again?
Sure, focus on the spelling instead of the claim or the argument. Have fun with that.Emigrate means to leave, imigrate means to arrive...
Of course age is a factor! If 10% are eligible to vote, and they vote for the people that take care of their needs and represent them faithfully, that's all they get. Why should Jews vote for someone that will take care of Arab issues and not their own issues? If the Knesset was set up like the US Congress and was based on size and population, you would have a point, but it's not, and therefore you don't.They are 20% of the population and about 10% of the Knesset... age shouldn't be a factor.
There is no logic in your demand, might as well give every child from the second they are born the right to vote, then they will have representation based on population size. Until that point, they have representation which fits perfectly with the voting population. You can't really ask for more than that. Well, YOU can, anyway
Did you notice how I said proportionally represents Israeli Arabs of voting age? No, I'll bet you didn't. But I'm the one that's cherry picking...Proportional would be 2 not 1...
You're claiming systematic violation of rights and lesser rights to a segment of the population based on race, ethnicity and religion. That is Apartheid in so many words. You accused Israel of Apartheid against the Israeli Arabs, but if it helps soothe your troubled soul, we'll go back to using the first definition. Who cares about brevity, anyway?Since you asked, "
I'll tell you how: You're talking nonsense, and it's out of respect for you that I don't say that you're full of shit. Whatever argument you might think you have falls dead in the water as soon as you bother to actually take a look at life in Israel. In essence, when you claim that Israeli Arabs don't have the same rights as Jews, you're claiming Apartheid against Israel's own citizens. Even though I've done it before, I'll do it again to show you how stupid that analogy is, just look at the chart I'm attaching."
Your words, since I had not mentioned aparthied as attached to Israeli Arabs I drew the distiction between the two groups.
Except for the fact that I stated ad nauseum that I was not referring to the "Occupied Territories". That is a different subject for a different debate, yet you can't seem to get that through your mind. Do you want me to go over the distinction between Israeli Arabs and Palestinians yet again?And now your deliberately conflating again, that comment was clearly made in refrence to the occupied territories not inside Israel. In the occupied territories the jews are a minority.
To do nothing is to support Hamas/Fatah. If they say they don't support Hamas/Fatah and move to Israel, they are not in any particular danger, unless you're now claiming Hamas and Fatah have hit squads roving all around Israel specifically looking for these people.Jews and the non-Jewish spouses of Jews are not required to pass those requirements, forgien workers and refugees are not required to pass that test- its racist. its one thing to filter out radicals and sympathizers and another to pass a blanket ban that requires someone to move from non-actor either way to actor that may put them at serious risk of repercussions. Fatah and Hamas both execute people they see as friendly to Israel.
Moreover, you've just proved in that post why it's in Israel's best interest to make a distinction, if Hamas and Fatah are as dangerous as you make them out to be
That, and most militants don't live to reach an old age. Being alive works better than being deadDid you bother to wonder why militancy decliens with age? Becuase the would be militants are now to busy supporting families... jobs work better than jails.
Nothing in that article points to official government policy to discriminate against Christians. The exact opposite, it shows steps the government and police have taken to defend Christian holy places.Ya lets go straight to extremes....
UNHCR | Refworld | Israel: Situation of Christians; anti-missionary legislation and its use in practice; activities of Yad L'Achim in relation to Christians, Jehovah's Witnesses and Messianic Jews
Realitvely minor like I said, but real like I said.
Went over the definition of Apartheid, went over the definition of Israeli Arabs/Palestinians.Show me where I've claimed Israel is an aparthied state inside of its own borders (except when it claims the occupied territories are part of Israel). Inside israel proper I've merely pointed out that Israeli-Arabs are not full equals. This takes 4 primary forms- access to JNF lands and the JNF control of land belonging to Arabs sold to them by Israel in the 1950's and Israel's refusal to honor Arab deeds. 2- Immigration policies, 3- access to veterans benefits, 4- a prior history of official policies that have created a situation that fosters poverty and unemployment.
1) JNF control of the land: (Spoiler to save room)
Spoiler!
Once again, you are mistaken, you choose whether to admit it or not.
2) Asked and answered
3) What veteran benefits, they don't serve in the IDF!!
4) You mean policies like the one that state that every company must have an Arab on its board of directors? I'm sorry, I'm gonna need actual examples of these so called discriminatory policies. So far every single company I've worked in (mainly in the center of the country), there have been ~15% Arab workers, and not in the maintenance staff...
How about the fact that I'm completely in favor of a Palestinian state and am willing to admit when Israel does something wrong? Doesn't get much more centrist than that, does it?Really... name one centrist posistion you support?
La la la, not discussing the Palestinians, la la la!!!Since you just declared that the entire Palestinian nation/nature (typo?) wants to kill you and your friends... hardly objective. Nor do I think Israel wants peace, at least not a just peace. The Palestinians and Israelis are entitled to 100% of the land they had before the 1967 war- period full stop. Israel only wants to give them 90%, and will only give them that if they agree to a set of conditions. That is called extortion. Nor has Israel acted in other ways designed to foster peace. The Palestinians were not party to the 1967 War. The Golan Heights are a different story.
La la la, not discussing the Palestinians, la la la!!!Go back a couple of pages and you see me admit a mistake. Nor am I a supporter of the Palestinians per se, I support justice. You've made the claim over and over again that Israel is a just actor, but I've not been presented with a shred of proof to support that claim. We had a similar argument a few months ago where we went over the case of a Palestinian man who was either severely beaten or murdered by settlers and how Israel still hasn't put his attacker in jail. Or how no one got prosecuted for well poisonings, destruction of generators, or the destruction of orchards and confiscation of livestock. Not to mention that in Gaza prior to the flotilla incident the ICRC was very clear that the list of banned items had created a situation of chronic malnutrition among Gaza's children. They were eating diets too high in sugars and fats but way too low in nutrients. In part becuase Israel banned the importation of items needed to sustain vegtable crops like green house parts, fertilizers and pesticides. Sure I agree whole heartedly that wholesale importation of amonium nitrate would be stupid. But there are other nitrates and means of delivery.
Oh, and by the way, Israel left the Palestinians scores of greenhouses and shit tons of arable land in Gaza. What have the Palestinians done with that? Oh yeah, I remember. Jack shit. Tore down the greenhouses and let the land lie fallow. But that's OK, you can blame Israel for that, we all know you're going to do that anyway...
Last edited by bigross86; 30 Oct 11, at 17:45.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.
Right, not according to the UN Report.
As of June 2009, a total of 46% of agricultural land in the Gaza Strip was assessed to be inaccessible or out of production1 owing to destruction of lands during 'Cast Lead' and inaccessible areas lying within the "security buffer zone".
Only a limited percentage of this land has been rehabilitated due to the blockade that restricts the import of materials and equipment for rehabilitation and access to damaged areas. Farmers in these areas are unable to cultivate and produce goods for consumption or sale, and herders, unable to provide sufficient natural food for their animals, must purchase animal feed at unaffordable prices.
The area inside the Buffer Zone along the northern and eastern borders with Israel contains nearly a third (29%) of the Gaza Strip's arable land, and is inaccessible to farmers and herders.3
The width of the Buffer Zone is 0.5-1km along the eastern border and 1.8-2km along the northern border.4
Operation 'Cast Lead' caused major destruction of agricultural areas; including damage to 17% of cultivated land, due to bulldozing and chemical contamination.10
Environmental experts predict a subsequent change in agricultural biodiversity (the variation of life forms within an ecosystem) that will disrupt the farming economy in the long-term.
Farmers will have to adjust to and absorb the costs of environmental disruption in addition to adopting already inadequate coping strategies. Long-term damage to soil, due to uncontrolled sewage dumping, salination, and other contamination, has led to a degraded ability to produce.
Between 50 and 80 million litres of untreated and partially-treated waste water has been dumped every day into the sea since January 2008, owing largely to severely compromised treatment capacity in the Gaza Strip.11 This raw sewage is harming marine life and contaminating fish
for human consumption all along the coast.
Restrictions imposed on the civilian population by the continuing blockade of the Gaza Strip amount to collective punishment, a violation of international humanitarian law.12 The blockade of Gaza also prevents or greatly hampers the exercise by the children, women and men living there of many human rights, including the right to food, the right to an adequate standard of living, the right to work, and the right to the highest attainable standard of health.
Fishing in the Gaza Strip currently presents a threat to people's lives as well as livelihoods. Fishers venturing past the imposed 3 nm fishing zone to support their livelihoods find themselves frequently subjected to arrests, seizing of boats, and shootings from the Israeli navy. Fishers are under intensive scrutiny by the IDF, which uses helicopters, and gunboats to monitor fishing activity.15
Since January 2009, 2 fishers have been killed and 12 injured by the almost daily shootings.16 Over 300 incidents of confiscation of fishing boats and equipment have been recorded since Operation 'Cast Lead'.17
From January to early April 2010 alone there have been 48 reported occurrences of IDF patrol boats opening fire on fishers.18
Since Operation 'Cast Lead', the number of incidents in the fishing zone has increased significantly, presenting a serious protection threat and contributing to the reduction in the number of fishers in the Gaza Strip from 10,000 in 2000 down to 3,500 today.
Fishers say ever-tightening restrictions on where they can fish and frequent attacks by Israeli gunboats are putting more and more of them out of business.
"Now, Israelis shoot all the time and without reason. The Israeli navy keeps confiscating fishing equipment and ripping up fishermen's nets" Muhamed Subuh al-Hissi, of the Palestinian Fishermen's Union in the Gaza Strip.19
Farming without Land, Fishing without Water
There is nothing more dangerous in the world than Blind Patriotism.
Last edited by The Black Ghost; 30 Oct 11, at 18:53.
The greatest weapon is the truth
Turns out it's not my last post...
Instead of focusing on what happened after Cast Lead, focus on what happened before, between 2005-2008.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.
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