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Thread: Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigross86 View Post
    Wow. Look at Obamaś body language when Netanyahu tells him why the right of return is not going to happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigross86 View Post
    That's a pretty powerful moment at the end there. Notice even the photographers stopped taking pictures to take in what Netanyahu was saying.

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    There are many things I don't like about Netanyahu, like all politicians, but he is well spoken, thinks before he speaks, and is not afraid to do hard things. His speech before Congress is going to be interesting, I may wake up really early to watch it.
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    It all seems moot to me as there was no Palestine until the British Mandate in 1922 that created Palestine, sort of as a reward for support after WWI.

    If the Palestinians truly want peace, all they have to do is stop attacking Israel.
    "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

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    Quote Originally Posted by McFire View Post
    It all seems moot to me as there was no Palestine until the British Mandate in 1922 that created Palestine, sort of as a reward for support after WWI.

    If the Palestinians truly want peace, all they have to do is stop attacking Israel.
    That's like saying there was no ireland till 1922. It's been called Palastine for almost 2000 years and people were settled there before the british mandate. If you mean everyone living there is an israeli I believe that would create serious demographic issues for a jewish state if those living there were given equal rights. I'd imagine those in the west bank and gaza would be fine with that as they'd be be about 50 percent of the knesset to start and more every year after due to birth rates and Israel would if ironically insured it's destruction by annexing areas with huge arab majorities
    Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
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    Hey Mcfire, I see you are in Iraq. If you are a contractor or a soldier,( or an Iraqi), thanks for your service. I've been there.

    You are absolutely right. I have come to the conclusion that most Americans simply do not know who Palestinians TRULY are. They only see that they are the "little guy' and Israel is the big bad guy, taking over THEIR land.That is not the case. Just google Palestinian and you might see,( correct me if I'm wrong), that they are just like Israel. They are the outcasts of the Arab world. They are actually more like Israeli's than they are Arab. And as poor outcasts, they have (unwittingly or otherwise) become pawns of the Arab powers, to take the heat for the Arab worlds hatred of Israel. The reality is that there never was a Palestine until Israel was created, ( they were the bedoins that lived on the land before Israel was created,( though they never had a historical claim to any land) and they are the Arabs that have moved there since Israel was created). They might be separated into three groups.Those that lived in peace before Israel came ( and still do), and those that hate Israel and are there to make trouble, or consider them selves outcasts and are searching for a homeland as new Palestinians.

    So the Arab/ Israeli problem, IMHO, is four fold. First, Israel needs to have an independant, secure state. This part is already solved as Israel has already settled it's border disputes with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan , and Egypt( more or less). The second part is to determine which of the Palestinians just want to meld with Israel. The third part is to create a place for the Palestinians that need their own homeland, as a viable economic zone where they can prosper and practice self determination, free from the other Arab despots of the region. The forth part is to rid this " new Palestinian state" from the trouble making group, that comes from the Arab world, and needs to return to the countries they originally came from ( Iran, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, etc.)

    In other words, they need a new "Marshall Plan" . Just like George Marshall (more or less) resettled Europe after WW2. And it needs to come from the U.S and Israel because they have the big guns to make it happen. Anything less is a song in the wind.IMHO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    Washington (CNN) -- President Barack Obama on Thursday made official the long-held but rarely stated U.S. support for a future Palestinian state based on borders that existed before the 1967 Middle East war."
    I disagree 100% . The future Palestinian State must be based on borders that existed in 1917 after the Ottoman Empire was defeated.

    .

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    Rosie, my aunt was born in "Jerusalem, Palestine". Coincidentally, where she lives now will she will be in Palestinian territory according to the '67 lines. Do you think she'll be able to stay living where she does? After all, she is Palestinian

    Contamacious, I'm trying to find where to start proving your point wrong. Unfortunately it's late and I've got to get up early tomorrow. I'm hoping somebody else will come by and rip your argument to shreds
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigross86 View Post
    Rosie, my aunt was born in "Jerusalem, Palestine". Coincidentally, where she lives now will she will be in Palestinian territory according to the '67 lines. Do you think she'll be able to stay living where she does? After all, she is Palestinian

    Contamacious, I'm trying to find where to start proving your point wrong. Unfortunately it's late and I've got to get up early tomorrow. I'm hoping somebody else will come by and rip your argument to shreds
    Jews have lived there a long time....what changed that you think the moslems would be hostile is a question worth asking. Obama did say the 67 borders should be a starting point not a destination and stated an understanding for the need for further land swaps. Do you believe the palestinians deserve their own country if so where if not why are they denied rights as Israelis if the west bank is Israel?
    Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    I disagree 100% . The future Palestinian State must be based on borders that existed in 1917 after the Ottoman Empire was defeated.

    .
    That was an artifical boundry. it should be based on demographics not a line in the sand. Where would you have the israelis go?
    Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigross86 View Post
    Rosie, my aunt was born in "Jerusalem, Palestine". Coincidentally, where she lives now will she will be in Palestinian territory according to the '67 lines. Do you think she'll be able to stay living where she does? After all, she is Palestinian

    Contamacious, I'm trying to find where to start proving your point wrong
    . Unfortunately it's late and I've got to get up early tomorrow. I'm hoping somebody else will come by and rip your argument to shreds

    Go to sleep.

    Tomorrow read the The Palestine Mandate


    ART. 7.

    The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.


    Then convince Bibi to do the right thing. Dismantle the Jewish State and move to Arizona.

    TaTa

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    Quote Originally Posted by Contumacious View Post
    Go to sleep.

    Tomorrow read the The Palestine Mandate


    ART. 7.

    The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.


    Then convince Bibi to do the right thing. Dismantle the Jewish State and move to Arizona.

    TaTa
    So you want us to base todays foreign policy on documents signed in a totally different time period 80 years ago, ignoring the geopolitical events of the mid to late 20th and early 21st century? Also, you want to essentially ensure that a Jewish populace lives under the same conditions that they lived in circa 1930s-1940s in Germany. Given the propensity of Arab states to discriminate against citizens based upon religious belief, you essentially want to ensure that ANY Jew lives their life as a second class citizen.


    Typical liberal anti-semitism and insanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McFire View Post
    It all seems moot to me as there was no Palestine until the British Mandate in 1922 that created Palestine, sort of as a reward for support after WWI.

    If the Palestinians truly want peace, all they have to do is stop attacking Israel.
    Make No Mistake, the AIF conducted operations against the remains of the Ottoman Empire in WW1, in which they interacted with elements of a functioning civilisation. Not a barren Desert or concentration camp. Today memorials & monuments dot various capitals around Australia. No amount of crying about the lack of an officially endorsed state, is ever going to change the fact people were displaced. By force. Good people. Using 'They' as if a plural really does exist for many that are subject to events that are beyond their control, is alien to reality.
    Ego Numquam

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfarer View Post
    So you want us to base todays foreign policy on documents signed in a totally different time period 80 years ago, ignoring the geopolitical events of the mid to late 20th and early 21st century?

    Au Contraire, Mon Frère.

    My position is based on geopolitical events, ie, the fact that the Palestinians are not willing to forget the fact that the zionists invaded their land , stole it, and slaughtered their relatives.

    Au Also, you want to essentially ensure that a Jewish populace lives under the same conditions that they lived in circa 1930s-1940s in Germany.
    HUH?

    And you reached that "conclusion" how? This discussion has nothing to do with those Jews who have chosen to live honestly outside Palestine.

    Given the propensity of Arab states to discriminate against citizens based upon religious belief, you essentially want to ensure that ANY Jew lives their life as a second class citizen.
    I don't think so. David Ben-Gurion came to Palestine willing to disappear the Palestinians by any means

    The goal of "disappearing" the indigenous Arab population points to a virtual truism buried beneath a mountain of apologetic Zionist literature: what spurred Palestinians' opposition to Zionism was not anti-Semitism in the sense of an irrational hatred of Jews but rather the prospect - very real - of their expulsion.


    Typical liberal anti-semitism and insanity.
    Wrong again. I am a Libertarian. Anti-semite? Well, show me that the present residents - WHITE EUROPEANS - of the Jewish State are semites and are somewhow related to the lost 12 tribes of Israel.

    TaTa

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    My position is based on geopolitical events, ie, the fact that the Palestinians are not willing to forget the fact that the zionists invaded their land , stole it, and slaughtered their relatives.
    Actually Arab states stole Palestinian land in the 1948 war. Don't blame the Zionists. And if you want to place blame on someone, place it on the British and not the Zionists, who had to defend their borders from violation by Arab states, who have repeatedly sought to destroy and terminate their existence.

    And you reached that "conclusion" how? This discussion has nothing to do with those Jews who have chosen to live honestly outside Palestine.
    What are you going to do with 5.785,000 Jews currently residing in Israel? Which country will accept THIS diaspora? Considering the way that Arab states like Iran, Egypt and Syria have treated ethnic and religious minorities, not much hope rests for Jews living in an Arab-ruled Israel/Palestine.

    I don't think so. David Ben-Gurion came to Palestine willing to disappear the Palestinians by any means
    Perhaps your forgetting the context of the Holocaust. Palestinians HAD a state until the Arab nations invaded, and took land reserved for them. Also, Israel had to deal with Jewish refugees from the Arab states, whilst the Arab states cared not for Palestinian refugees, and YOU seek to sink the Israeli economy by dumping grandchildren of original refugees upon the Israeli state?

    Wrong again. I am a Libertarian. Anti-semite? Well, show me that the present residents - WHITE EUROPEANS - of the Jewish State are semites and are somewhow related to the lost 12 tribes of Israel.
    Indonesian Muslims are not genetically linked to Arabs but they are still Muslim? Does that make them any less Muslim? Arab states care not about whether or not the Jews of Israel are Semites or not, their clear intent is to wipe the floor with the Jewish state and populace. Also, if you know a bit of history you will recall that the European Jews are Semitic because of the diaspora by the Romans.

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