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Reply With QuoteFT Alphaville Something else made in China – Chinese GDP
In the non-earth shattering department, but we have a Chinese official, Le Kiquang, on record saying the GDP China releases is "man-made"...and he said it with a smile.
I'm not so sure. On Military minded boards and in the states it tends not to be the case. Going through the daily news comments (Not accurate until a newspoll or gallup survey gets done) People here tend towards seeing the guy as the publisher - not much else, but some batting for the U.S as well. A "Don't shoot the messenger" scenario.Originally Posted by JAD_333
This is tied up with suspicion over the timing of, and the nature of, the rape allegations over him. Go after the little guy and he'll only ever get more support. Idiot mob, or whatever. A good proportion of the populace already think the USA has a tendency towards Jenkins ear moments after 9 years of war.
The Australian Government is declining to grant him Asylum, and in any case, he does not trust the Australian Government, citing the governments complicity with Gitmo (He isn't seeking consular protection - period) One gains the impression the government would hand him over if it could. Which begs the question, does anyone actually know in which country he was at the time? Like you allude to - in your last para... the technical questions of it seem to be interesting!
Unfortunately, the states isn't focussing on the other joker ( IMO it really should be), for which he will probably be rewarded with LIFE IN PRISON. That seems to me to be screaming in everyone's face to be the most effectual way of dealing with it. Assange will have to deal with that in his deteriorating mind, and so will any potential traitor thinking about repeating the saga.Sometimes there needs to be a very public expose, to make bring it to the forefront of these idiots minds.
Last edited by Chunder; 06 Dec 10, at 11:44. Reason: italics/ clarity (same ol problems)
Ego Numquam
FT Alphaville Something else made in China – Chinese GDP
In the non-earth shattering department, but we have a Chinese official, Le Kiquang, on record saying the GDP China releases is "man-made"...and he said it with a smile.
Yes but things moved a lot slower and we're not going back to those days. Besides there's still been theft of plans by spies with microcameras in the good old days.
Exactly, this is nothing but a failure of security protocol if there even was one to begin with. You would think but...
I suspect this was an accident waiting to happen given how junior Maning is. Did they ever do an audit of the situation, budget would have been high to get this implemented. Security usually takes a back seat until an accident happens.
What this incident will do is make it easier for ppl in the state dept to appreciate the importance of security. The extra precautions, checks, hassles etc. You can have the best precautions and all but if ppl do not adhere to those procedures you are still at square one.
Last edited by Double Edge; 06 Dec 10, at 19:10.
The leaker and the wikileaks guy should both be shot.
WikiLeaks reveals sites critical to US security
By SHARON THEIMER, Associated Press Sharon Theimer, Associated Press 16 mins ago
WASHINGTON – In a disclosure of some of the most sensitive information revealed yet by WikiLeaks, the website has released a secret cable listing sites worldwide that the U.S. considers critical to its national security.
The locations cited in the diplomatic cable from U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton range from undersea communications lines to suppliers of food, medicine and manufacturing materials.
The Pentagon declined to comment Monday on the details of what it called "stolen" documents containing classified information. But a spokesman, Col. David Lapan, called the disclosure "damaging" and said it gives valuable information to the country's adversaries.
"This is one of many reasons why we believe Wikileaks' actions are irresponsible and dangerous," Lapan said.
WikiLeaks released the 2009 Clinton cable on Sunday.
In the message, marked "secret," Clinton asked U.S. diplomatic posts to help update a list of sites around the world "which, if destroyed, disrupted or exploited, would likely have an immediate and deleterious effect on the United States."
The list was considered so confidential, the posts were advised to come up with it on their own: "Posts are not/not being asked to consult with host governments in respect to this request," Clinton wrote.
Attached to Clinton's message was a rundown of sites included in the 2008 "Critical Foreign Dependencies Initiative" list. Some of the sites, such as border crossings, hydroelectric dams and shipping lanes, could hardly be considered secret.
But other locations, such as mines, manufacturers of components used in weapons systems, and vaccine and antivenom factories, likely were not widely known. The Associated Press has decided against publishing their names due to the sensitive nature of the information.
The release came as WikiLeaks faced more pressure to end its release of secret U.S. diplomatic cables, which started last week.
The Swiss postal system on Monday shut down a bank account held by WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, leaving him and his website with few options left for raising money. Meanwhile, WikiLeaks' Swedish servers again came under suspected attack.
Also Monday, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder again condemned the leaks and said the espionage act is just one of the laws the U.S. could use to prosecute those involved in the WikiLeaks releases.
Holder declined to say which other laws might come into play. Possibilities include charges such as the theft of government property or receipt of stolen government property.
____
Associated Press Writers Anne Flaherty and Alicia A. Caldwell in Washington and John Heilprin in Geneva contributed to this story.
Copyright 2010 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway
This is getting stupid. You mean to tell me that people no longer can read a map? Without looking at the cables, I can tell you where the vulnerable points of the US trade system is and that is simply by looking at the map.
Unless this entire new generation of kids forgotten on how to read a map.
Chimo
Those files have been available for download since WL decided to leak this a few days ago. The WHOLE LOT ok.
But, its encrypted. The key is 256 bits and its considered to be very difficult to break even with supercomputers. So nobody who has the file can see whats in it at all yet.
The newspapers have the key and they release stuff at their discretion. They redact some and obscure anything they judge to be inappropriate. They pass these one to WL who publishes the modified files. For some reason this particular one seems to have missed it.
If for any reason WL decides to release the decrypt key to the public, everyone that has downloaded that encrypted file can see its contents. ALL OF IT in one go. To date WL has only published 0.3% of total. At the rate they're going it might be years before all of this comes out.
The horse is out of the barn, it has bolted and is long gone
Would you say the same if you saw the list in question ?
This is a pre-emptive move to stop more sensitive stuff from coming out if there indeed is any. Its a good ploy.
Last edited by Double Edge; 06 Dec 10, at 19:46.
Yes, because it's a dumb request from a SECSTATE to her STAFF. More over, she has 100% access to this info and her Staff should have advised her. Instead of sending out this dumb ass request to her embassy staff who has zeroed understanding of targeting priorities, she should have asked the nuclear targeteers in Washingon DC. They could have told her what's needed to do what at where.
They've been doing this job only for 40+ years. Of course, embassy staff smooching foreign kings would know better.
Chimo
col yu,
i doubt SECSTATE herself asked for it. hundreds of thousands of cables is signed out CLINTON, but it's most likely an underling.Yes, because it's a dumb request from a SECSTATE to her STAFF.
several points. any request to the relevant embassy office would also be routed through the local Defense Attache/ODC branch, which will have the knowledge or at least access to the knowledge. second, note the list isn't about places the US wants to destroy but places the US would like to see kept from destruction. this goes beyond the purview of nuclear targeteers.Instead of sending out this dumb ass request to her embassy staff who has zeroed understanding of targeting priorities, she should have asked the nuclear targeteers in Washingon DC. They could have told her what's needed to do what at where.
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov
So that list is of no 'critical' importance then ?
That word 'critical' appears 30 times in this cable.
Yep
Last edited by Double Edge; 06 Dec 10, at 20:14.
No, it does not. Part of the nuclear targeteers' job is to see what kind of damages the enemy can inflict and what kind of assets do they need to inflict that kind of damage, again this goes back to Stuart Slade's Nuke War 101, 102, and 103. Therefore, you restrict the enemy's actions and reactions by the proper destruction of certain assets. For instance, if you get rid of the Russian silo based ICBMs, you pretty well guarantee the invulnerability of your remaining missile force since Russian mobile units lack the accuracy for such a strike against hardened targets. Though that would suck for the cities.
Case in point, Hans Kristensen through open source materials already determined the casualties from a Chinese 1st nuclear strike using their limited arsenal.
Chimo
If it was critical, it would have been EYES ONLY.
Chimo
Good, we can all heave a collective sigh of relief then
There are none in that category or even top secret in the whole stash.
what i mean is both intel and analysis is ultimately is all-source (coming from multiple agencies). for instance, DHS and DoS all contribute to the list, with DoD input. nuclear targeteers cannot do this by themselves, certainly not without the in-country knowledge which the local Embassy/DAO/ODC has.No, it does not. Part of the nuclear targeteers' job is to see what kind of damages the enemy can inflict and what kind of assets do they need to inflict that kind of damage, again this goes back to Stuart Slade's Nuke War 101, 102, and 103.
right, there are certain levels of how critical things are. note that because this is largely a DHS product the classification standard is not as high as those used by the DoD for our own estimates.If it was critical, it would have been EYES ONLY.
Last edited by astralis; 06 Dec 10, at 20:33.
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov
The point is the work has been done, ever since the rumours of lost Soviet nukes. It continues to be done today with new evals as new realities emerges. I don't think the Americans think too much about losing Shanghai during the Cold War but losing that Stock Exchange today would be very detrimental. There should have been no new project. They could have gone to the nuclear targeteers and got everything, including the cold blooded calculations of how many need to die in order for the attack to be successful.
These cables are reading more and more like new underlings seeking their own little empires, trying to justify their existence, their budgets, their expense accounts, and their overblown egos.
Chimo
col yu,
i think you answered your own point here, though. not only has the passage of time made an update necessary, but the ultimate product has a different focus, and security classification, than the old targetting lists. for instance, while we might focus on where Chinese silos were back in the Cold War, we wouldn't focus on, say, a biotech lab in France. we would still need the targeteer's expertise but the old data might not be completely relevant now.The point is the work has been done, ever since the rumours of lost Soviet nukes. It continues to be done today with new evals as new realities emerges. I don't think the Americans think too much about losing Shanghai during the Cold War but losing that Stock Exchange today would be very detrimental. There should have been no new project. They could have gone to the nuclear targeteers and got everything, including the cold blooded calculations of how many need to die in order for the attack to be successful.
of course...it's a bureaucracy...it's the -STATE- dept!These cables are reading more and more like new underlings seeking their own little empires, trying to justify their existence, their budgets, their expense accounts, and their overblown egos.
The WikiLeaks cables as literature. - By Christopher Beam - Slate Magazine
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov
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