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Thread: Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship

  1. #571
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    I heard on the radio that theres a youtube video taking the **** out of the flotilla thing thats really popular in Israel.
    Cant find it though... Have you heard it?

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    Yes, It's called "we con the world"
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    bigross86 Reply

    "I do truly wish the Israeli PR machine would get it's thumb out of it's ass and do some work..."

    Sorry but you shouldn't be pained. The Israeli government has every right to make its case but the best defense you can have is when others rise to such on your behalf.

    Israel is EXPECTED to defend its reputation even when wrong. That's the problem. When others do so, your credibility and legitimacy rises.
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    I agree, but the Israeli PR started out late on it's defense, then put out a bad effort, and since then has done nothing at all.
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  5. #575
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    I don't understand why is Turkey doing this now. I have always been suspicious of Turkey, any one who watched their big blockbuster "Valley of the Wolves" would know that Turkey had never had any goodwill for Israel.....
    Seek Save Serve Medic

  6. #576
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    im hearing an awful lot of politicians talking about how the blockade is 'unsustainable'... but im not hearing any alternatives offered..

    Have the Quartet got a plan for post-blockade Gaza? Anything that might stop the rockets?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigross86 View Post
    Maritime Martyrs on Vimeo


    It pains me that independent organizations have to end up being the ones doing this. I do truly wish the Israeli PR machine would get it's thumb out of it's ass and do some work...
    I saw part of the video; I unfortunately found it characteristic of most commentary on this incident; from both sides; full of omissions and misrepresentations.

    I am getting the feeling that 90% of the coverage of this incident is of this nature and mostly propaganda rubbish; from both Israel and the Turks.

    Israel does have a legitimate case to stop arms from reaching Hamas; and it can be made honestly like some Israeli outlets like Haaretz have done instead of resorting to dishonest propaganda. Good PR these days basically seems to be, how to lie more than the other guy.

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    667medic,

    I don't understand why is Turkey doing this now. I have always been suspicious of Turkey, any one who watched their big blockbuster "Valley of the Wolves" would know that Turkey had never had any goodwill for Israel.....
    tom friedman's got a few good articles out now.

    Op-Ed Columnist - Letter From Istanbul - NYTimes.com

    Op-Ed Columnist - Letter From Istanbul, Part 2 - NYTimes.com
    The human mind cannot grasp the causes of phenomena in the aggregate. But the need to find these causes is inherent in man’s soul. And the human intellect, without investigating the multiplicity and complexity of the conditions of phenomena, any one of which taken separately may seem to be the cause, snatches at the first, the most intelligible approximation to a cause, and says: “This is the cause!"

    -Leo Tolstoy
    War and Peace

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    as i predicted.

    ----

    http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2010/..._r=1&ref=world

    Israel Unveils Procedures to Ease Gaza Blockade
    By REUTERS
    Published: June 20, 2010

    Filed at 1:03 p.m. ET

    JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel announced new procedures Sunday to ease its land blockade on the Gaza Strip, saying it would start allowing in all goods except for weapons and materials that can be used to make them.

    A statement from the prime minister's office said Israel would "as quickly as possible" publish a list of banned goods, and that all items not on the list would be allowed into the Palestinian territory, which is run by the Hamas Islamist group.

    "Israel seeks to keep out of Gaza weapons and material that Hamas uses to prepare and carry out terror and rocket attacks towards Israel and its civilians," Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said. "All other goods will be allowed into Gaza."

    Netanyahu announced the plan together with international Middle East envoy Tony Blair, who had been lobbying Israel to restrict its embargo to a list of specified items.

    Israel has been under pressure to ease its blockade of Gaza since a May 31 raid on an aid flotilla bound for the territory, where some 1.5 million Palestinians live.

    Under the new procedures, Israel will allow the transfer of construction materials for housing projects that are approved by the Ramallah-based Palestinian Authority and supervised by international organizations.

    These include projects for schools, health facilities, water treatment and sanitation, the statement said.

    Israel also said it would keep the right to ban "dual-use" construction materials that could be used by Hamas to manufacture weapons and to rebuild its military facilities.

    The coastal strip, where 1 million Palestinians depend on aid from the United Nations and other international relief agencies, suffered severe damage in a three-week Israeli offensive launched in December 2008.

    The United Nations has complained that the ban on construction materials is hampering reconstruction.

    Israel said it would also expand operations at border crossings controlled by its army to allow more goods into Gaza. It said it would consider opening more border crossings if calm persisted along the Israel-Gaza frontier.

    The was no immediate reaction from Hamas, which refuses to recognise Israel and seized control of Gaza in 2007 after routing forces loyal to the Fatah movement of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.

    Hamas is opposed to the indirect, U.S.-mediated peace talks that Israel has begun with Abbas, who heads the Palestinian Authority and governs the Israeli-occupied West Bank.

    (Writing by Joseph Nasr, Editing by Kevin Liffey)
    The human mind cannot grasp the causes of phenomena in the aggregate. But the need to find these causes is inherent in man’s soul. And the human intellect, without investigating the multiplicity and complexity of the conditions of phenomena, any one of which taken separately may seem to be the cause, snatches at the first, the most intelligible approximation to a cause, and says: “This is the cause!"

    -Leo Tolstoy
    War and Peace

  10. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marko View Post
    im hearing an awful lot of politicians talking about how the blockade is 'unsustainable'... but im not hearing any alternatives offered..

    Have the Quartet got a plan for post-blockade Gaza? Anything that might stop the rockets?
    No they have not got a plan and the alternatives to the 'unsustainable blockade is something the hand wringers won't talk about lest their grubby ideology becomes plainly obvious.

    Today in one of the very few non leftist MSM outlets in this country the following very good article appeared appeared as the part highlighted below.

    I think it is one of the best summations I have read of the malaise Western societies have inflicted upon themselves.

    Israel's future and possibly the future of other western nations depend on us collectively waking up to the incidious nature of the creeping loss of that which made us the great societies and nations that we think we are.
    /rant.

    Israel and the Surrender of the West
    One of the world's oldest stories is playing out before our eyes: The Jews are being scapegoated again.

    By SHELBY STEELE
    The most interesting voice in all the fallout surrounding the Gaza flotilla incident is that sanctimonious and meddling voice known as "world opinion." At every turn "world opinion," like a school marm, takes offense and condemns Israel for yet another infraction of the world's moral sensibility. And this voice has achieved an international political legitimacy so that even the silliest condemnation of Israel is an opportunity for self-congratulation.

    Rock bands now find moral imprimatur in canceling their summer tour stops in Israel (Elvis Costello, the Pixies, the Gorillaz, the Klaxons). A demonstrator at an anti-Israel rally in New York carries a sign depicting the skull and crossbones drawn over the word "Israel." White House correspondent Helen Thomas, in one of the ugliest incarnations of this voice, calls on Jews to move back to Poland. And of course the United Nations and other international organizations smugly pass one condemnatory resolution after another against Israel while the Obama administration either joins in or demurs with a wink.

    This is something new in the world, this almost complete segregation of Israel in the community of nations. And if Helen Thomas's remarks were pathetic and ugly, didn't they also point to the end game of this isolation effort: the nullification of Israel's legitimacy as a nation? There is a chilling familiarity in all this. One of the world's oldest stories is playing out before our eyes: The Jews are being scapegoated again.

    "World opinion" labors mightily to make Israel look like South Africa looked in its apartheid era—a nation beyond the moral pale. And it projects onto Israel the same sin that made apartheid South Africa so untouchable: white supremacy. Somehow "world opinion" has moved away from the old 20th century view of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as a complicated territorial dispute between two long-suffering peoples. Today the world puts its thumb on the scale for the Palestinians by demonizing the stronger and whiter Israel as essentially a colonial power committed to the "occupation" of a beleaguered Third World people.

    This is now—figuratively in some quarters and literally in others—the moral template through which Israel is seen. It doesn't matter that much of the world may actually know better. This template has become propriety itself, a form of good manners, a political correctness. Thus it is good manners to be outraged at Israel's blockade of Gaza, and it is bad manners to be outraged at Hamas's recent attack on a school because it educated girls, or at the thousands of rockets Hamas has fired into Israeli towns—or even at the fact that Hamas is armed and funded by Iran. The world wants independent investigations of Israel, not of Hamas.

    One reason for this is that the entire Western world has suffered from a deficit of moral authority for decades now. Today we in the West are reluctant to use our full military might in war lest we seem imperialistic; we hesitate to enforce our borders lest we seem racist; we are reluctant to ask for assimilation from new immigrants lest we seem xenophobic; and we are pained to give Western Civilization primacy in our educational curricula lest we seem supremacist. Today the West lives on the defensive, the very legitimacy of our modern societies requiring constant dissociation from the sins of the Western past—racism, economic exploitation, imperialism and so on.
    When the Israeli commandos boarded that last boat in the flotilla and, after being attacked with metal rods, killed nine of their attackers, they were acting in a world without the moral authority to give them the benefit of the doubt. By appearances they were shock troopers from a largely white First World nation willing to slaughter even "peace activists" in order to enforce a blockade against the impoverished brown people of Gaza. Thus the irony: In the eyes of a morally compromised Western world, the Israelis looked like the Gestapo.

    This, of course, is not the reality of modern Israel. Israel does not seek to oppress or occupy—and certainly not to annihilate—the Palestinians in the pursuit of some atavistic Jewish supremacy. But the merest echo of the shameful Western past is enough to chill support for Israel in the West.

    The West also lacks the self-assurance to see the Palestinians accurately. Here again it is safer in the white West to see the Palestinians as they advertise themselves—as an "occupied" people denied sovereignty and simple human dignity by a white Western colonizer. The West is simply too vulnerable to the racist stigma to object to this "neo-colonial" characterization.

    Our problem in the West is understandable. We don't want to lose more moral authority than we already have. So we choose not to see certain things that are right in front of us. For example, we ignore that the Palestinians—and for that matter much of the Middle East—are driven to militancy and war not by legitimate complaints against Israel or the West but by an internalized sense of inferiority. If the Palestinians got everything they want—a sovereign nation and even, let's say, a nuclear weapon—they would wake the next morning still hounded by a sense of inferiority. For better or for worse, modernity is now the measure of man.

    And the quickest cover for inferiority is hatred. The problem is not me; it is them. And in my victimization I enjoy a moral and human grandiosity—no matter how smart and modern my enemy is, I have the innocence that defines victims. I may be poor but my hands are clean. Even my backwardness and poverty only reflect a moral superiority, while my enemy's wealth proves his inhumanity.

    In other words, my hatred is my self-esteem. This must have much to do with why Yasser Arafat rejected Ehud Barak's famous Camp David offer of 2000 in which Israel offered more than 90% of what the Palestinians had demanded. To have accepted that offer would have been to forgo hatred as consolation and meaning. Thus it would have plunged the Palestinians—and by implication the broader Muslim world—into a confrontation with their inferiority relative to modernity. Arafat knew that without the Jews to hate an all-defining cohesion would leave the Muslim world. So he said no to peace.

    And this recalcitrance in the Muslim world, this attraction to the consolations of hatred, is one of the world's great problems today—whether in the suburbs of Paris and London, or in Kabul and Karachi, or in Queens, N.Y., and Gaza. The fervor for hatred as deliverance may not define the Muslim world, but it has become a drug that consoles elements of that world in the larger competition with the West. This is the problem we in the West have no easy solution to, and we scapegoat Israel—admonish it to behave better—so as not to feel helpless. We see our own vulnerability there.

    Mr. Steele is a senior fellow at Stanford University's Hoover Institution.
    Source;Israel and the Surrender of the West - WSJ.com

    Cheers.

  11. #581
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    well either that, or Israel is too quick to resort to violence and needs to calm down

  12. #582
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    Quote Originally Posted by captain View Post
    No they have not got a plan and the alternatives to the 'unsustainable blockade is something the hand wringers won't talk about lest their grubby ideology becomes plainly obvious.

    Today in one of the very few non leftist MSM outlets in this country the following very good article appeared appeared as the part highlighted below.

    I think it is one of the best summations I have read of the malaise Western societies have inflicted upon themselves.

    Israel's future and possibly the future of other western nations depend on us collectively waking up to the incidious nature of the creeping loss of that which made us the great societies and nations that we think we are.
    /rant.

    Can't really be bothered with th rest of this, but I'll give a factual correction that might help others to judge its value.

    The notion that the Australian media is dominated by the left is too bizarre to even call it fantasy. There are about 12 capital city daily newspapers in Australia (not counting Sunday papers). Rupert Murdoch owns 7 of them, another is known for its conservative politics & yet another is our equivalent of the 'Wall St Journal'. That leaves 3 major papers at best that might be described as 'left wing' (Murdoch also owns a bunch of large regional papers).

    Two of our 3 free to air commercial TV stations are owned by large private investment firms, the other by one of Australia's wealthiest people & one who has a stake in the non-Murdoch right wing paper. To the extent that radio broadcasts politics it is dominated by our local versions of right wing populist talk radio. The notion that any of this might be described as 'left wing' is absurd. The only exceptions to this in broadcast media are the government owned stations that broadcast in each market.

    Thanks to the craven policies of generations Australia has some of the most concentrated media ownership in the world, and it is largely in the hands of conservative proprietors.
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  13. #583
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    Think its same everywhere. People love to criticise the press and say its all 'liberal, polically correct, blah blah blah', when in actual fact its pretty broad ranging of all stripes and colours.

  14. #584
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marko View Post
    Think its same everywhere. People love to criticise the press and say its all 'liberal, polically correct, blah blah blah', when in actual fact its pretty broad ranging of all stripes and colours.
    I would agree that there is a broad range of opinion in Australia, but in terms of what most people normally access it tends to hunch to one end of the spectrum.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marko View Post
    well either that, or Israel is too quick to resort to violence and needs to calm down
    Mate, I'm really sorry to tell you this, but when you make sweeping statements like that, you're doing nothing but broadcasting your own ignorance about the situation. Somehow I've got the feeling that there's no way in hell any other country in the world would allow 10,000 rockets to fall on innocent civilians before they did something about it. There's a million more examples...
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