India Australia Relations

**Bigfella** · 24 Feb 10, 10:47

Originally Posted by axeman

For what it's worth, it has reached the Indian media (though no big headlines, ofc).

Australians treat themselves to Indian cuisine to protest race attacks - India - The Times of India

Unlike the guy who appears to have burned himself in an apparent attempt at insurance fraud. You remember that one Axeman, and I quote (post 9 if you are curious):

Usual occurrences in big cities, I suppose ? The Australian authorities ought to pull their socks up. I suppose calling these attacks against Indians what they truly are would be a good start.

Still, I guess some good press is better than a stream of half truths & assertions.

p.s. If you didn't get a chance, you might want to read the profile of Gautam Gupta. He is the prime source for a lot of the Indian media - read it & tell me if he sounds like someone who you would rely on for an accurate report on a situation.

**Bigfella** · 24 Feb 10, 10:54

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I joined in tonights initiative in Melbourne. I went to my local - an outstanding Hyderbadhi place called Dawaat (if you are ever in Victoria St Richmond I can recommend it).

I am a regular there, and on a typical day in the first part of the week you might get a half dozen people at any given time plus one or two takeaways in a place that will seat 35-40. The wait is usually a bit long, so I usually phone ahead (the food is worth the wait). When I went in tonight the place was booked out. No room at the inn. In addition the takeaways were running hot, with at least 10 people coming in for takeaway plus more phoning. My food took close to an hour, but I wasn't unhappy. Got to chat to a few locals who had the same idea as me. I felt for the overwhelmed staff, but they will probably get a week's takings just tonight.

Well doe melbourne & well done Australia.

**axeman** · 24 Feb 10, 15:07

Originally Posted by Bigfella

Unlike the guy who appears to have burned himself in an apparent attempt at insurance fraud. You remember that one Axeman, and I quote (post 9 if you are curious):

Still, I guess some good press is better than a stream of half truths & assertions.

p.s. If you didn't get a chance, you might want to read the profile of Gautam Gupta. He is the prime source for a lot of the Indian media - read it & tell me if he sounds like someone who you would rely on for an accurate report on a situation.

That was my point. The media wants big, interesting stories. That's not to say that racist attacks do not occur, which is what your cops were implying for quite a while, and I imagine, would have gotten unnoticed had it not been for our ratings-hungry media. Had the Indian people been unaware, our government wouldn't have taken any action whatsoever. One jackass lighting himself on fire doesn't absolve the several others who have attacked Indians (and you can't say that there hasn't been a racial motive behind a lot of them).

EDIT: Could you send a link to Gupta's profile ? Can't find it.

**captain** · 24 Feb 10, 17:01

Originally Posted by axeman

That was my point. The media wants big, interesting stories. That's not to say that racist attacks do not occur, which is what your cops were implying for quite a while, and I imagine, would have gotten unnoticed had it not been for our ratings-hungry media. Had the Indian people been unaware, our government wouldn't have taken any action whatsoever. One jackass lighting himself on fire doesn't absolve the several others who have attacked Indians (and you can't say that there hasn't been a racial motive behind a lot of them).

EDIT: Could you send a link to Gupta's profile ? Can't find it.

Axeman, It seems you don't quite get it yet.
There has been a damn site more attacks than just the one fool setting himself alight.

In post #13, I attached a lengthy article that should have explained things clearly for you.
This is part of that article;

That said, other attacks, as Victoria Police now belatedly admit, are indeed no-mucking-about racist. But to whose shame are these racists, really?

True, video footage of the infamous pack-attack on Sourabh Sharma on the Werribee train shows thugs of various ethnicities, including, it seems, the Anglo kind.

But what police and many journalists refuse to confirm or even discuss is what victims and their spokesmen repeatedly say - that many of their attackers are Africans, Islanders and, less often, Asians who are newcomers themselves, beneficiaries of our eagerness to seem kind and tolerant.

Hear it from Macquarie University student Mukul Khanna, called back home by his worried parents: “A lot of my Pakistani friends have left the place after being brutally attacked and robbed . . . Interestingly, the attackers are mostly not locals and are themselves people of foreign origin.”

Or read it in an edited statement that Tanveer X, bashed in January, gave to Beyond India Monthly: “When I turned on Anderson Rd I saw four black men . . . One of them came running behind us and hit me with the stick. Then they started hitting my wife . . . I want action against those African guys.”

And have it confirmed in this Herald Sun report from last year, when Indian taxi drivers protested at having been the victims of most armed robberies on cabbies: “This year between May 8 and August 2 there were 12 reported robberies on taxi drivers in Flemington, Moonee Ponds and Ascot Vale.

“Police will not officially acknowledge any particular ethnic group is a target, or that any other group is carrying out the crimes. But in every case the victims told police their attackers were African . . .” And in all but two their victims were Indians.

Note yet again the reluctance of police to admit they have trouble with African gangs—or gangs of any particular ethnicity.

Since that article was written of course there have been more attacks and another double murder, this time in Perth where two Indian students were murdered by another Indian student!

I have read a bit of your media and the clear implication is that the racist attacks are the responsibility of Anglo Aussies.
Well yes they are because we have allowed into this country people who simply do not follow the rules or our social mores.
Some of those people who should not be here are Indians and not only the Indians involved in killing others but also those who are involved in dodgey student visa rackets.
It seems that some of those people come very close to being classified as Mafiosos.

The penny should drop when you understand that there have have tens of thousands of Indians immigrating to Australia for many decades with no problems until very recently.

Gupta's cred has just about run out and very few except your media perhaps, will take notice of him any more.

**Bigfella** · 24 Feb 10, 22:08

Originally Posted by axeman

That was my point. The media wants big, interesting stories. That's not to say that racist attacks do not occur, which is what your cops were implying for quite a while, and I imagine, would have gotten unnoticed had it not been for our ratings-hungry media. Had the Indian people been unaware, our government wouldn't have taken any action whatsoever. One jackass lighting himself on fire doesn't absolve the several others who have attacked Indians (and you can't say that there hasn't been a racial motive behind a lot of them).

EDIT: Could you send a link to Gupta's profile ? Can't find it.

Axeman. Your original post (9) read very much like an accusation. Your 'point' seemed to be that this was a racist attack. You are welcome to try to show me that it wasn't. You are equally welcome to admit you were wrong.

The Victoria police have been doing what police do - following the evidence. I don't ever remember them saying or implying that there was no element of race in this, but they have consistently said that race did not appear to be the main motivation in most of these attacks. No one has offered any evidence to suggest they are wrong.

The indian media has done Indians & Australians a great disservice in the way it has reported this. I don't have time for this now, but I may come back to some specifics. I'd love to konw if they have reported the 4 recent murders of Indians by Indians in Australia with the same level of hysteria as they reported supposedly 'racist' crimes.

The Gupta article is reproduces in toto in post 58. There is also a link.

**cdude** · 25 Feb 10, 01:52

Indian media, enough said.

You guys get the better deal, think about India's neighbors. Last year, Chinese soldiers penetrated into India more than 200 times in different locations, according to Indian media.

**cirrrocco** · 25 Feb 10, 08:37

Originally Posted by cdude

Indian media, enough said.

You guys get the better deal, think about India's neighbors. Last year, Chinese soldiers penetrated into India more than 200 times in different locations, according to Indian media.

Chinese media, thats any oxymoron :-p

**Bigfella** · 25 Feb 10, 08:42

A stunning success. The 17,000 figure is probably low. It only covers those who actually registered online tha tthey were geting involved.

I thought the bolded quotes were interesting. I assume these are the sort of people Mr Gupta wouold dismiss as having a 'slave mentality'.

Fight against violence fills many stomachs

LORNA EDWARDS

February 25, 2010

ABOUT 17,000 people tucked into a curry at Indian restaurants across Australia yesterday to show solidarity with the Indian community as part of the Vindaloo Against Violence initiative.

The event was instigated by Melbourne web designer Mia Northrop initially as a gesture of support to Indians by urging 100 of her friends to eat at their local Indian restaurant.

But the idea soon spread with events staged nationally and even internationally.

Premier John Brumby joined Indian students for lunch at city cafe, Desi Dhaba, yesterday and the Victorian Parliament switched its menu to Indian cuisine to support the event.

''This great initiative combines [Victoria's] culinary reputation and uses it to send a message that we do not accept violence against any members of our community,'' Mr Brumby said.

While many restaurateurs The Age spoke to yesterday were grateful for the support, they all said racism towards Indians in Australia had been exaggerated.

Hundreds turned out for a Vindaloo Against Violence picnic dinner and Bollywood movie in a park at Kyneton last night with food provided by the local Dhaba at the Mill restaurant run by Jessi Singh.

Singh blamed the Indian media for ''making a mockery of Australia for a few attacks'' and refusing to publish the views of Indians living in Australia who did not feel there was a racism problem.

''I don't believe there is racism in Australia and feel it is one of the best countries to live in and way better than in my home country, India,'' he said.

''Indians are much more racist against their own people and it's really sad and heartbreaking that my own countrymen are doing this to Australia.''

Singh said he had run restaurants in Kyneton, Melbourne and Brisbane and travelled throughout rural Australia and never felt unwelcome.

''This is a very open, giving society where people respect your culture so for me today is more an event saying we are against any violence rather than only [against] the Indian community.''
About 70 boys from Melbourne High School joined Vindaloo Against Violence's founder Ms Northrop for a lunch at Little India restaurant in South Yarra yesterday.

Ms Northrop said she was surprised her idea had been embraced by so many.

''Today, I wanted to show the Indian community that we are not indifferent to the violence that has been happening,'' she said.

''I also really wanted to let the Indian media know that Australians don't tolerate racially motivated violence and racism and I didn't want the racist actions of a few to mar the reputation of Australia.''

In west Footscray, the Aangan Courtyard of India restaurant was booked out last night with 200 people eating out in three settings.

Manager Shivika Mago said the show of support made her feel proud to live in Australia.

''I really feel bad for the students but for me it is a very safe country and is not racist and we have never experienced any attacks or situations like that,'' she said.

''If Australia was a racist country, why would people even come to support Indians?''

Fight against violence fills many stomachs

**Bigfella** · 25 Feb 10, 08:44

Originally Posted by cdude

Indian media, enough said.

You guys get the better deal, think about India's neighbors. Last year, Chinese soldiers penetrated into India more than 200 times in different locations, according to Indian media.

DO you really want to play 'my sh1tty media is better than your sh1tty media'? Indian media is feral, Chinese media is cowed. I wouldn't trust either to tell me the sun was going to rise in the morning without independent verification.

**indus creed** · 25 Feb 10, 19:07

Originally Posted by cirrrocco

Chinese media, thats any oxymoron :-p

Its about time the West got a test of its own medicine. Every little incident in a country of billion people invokes travel advisory in Westerrn media. It is like they have a template for travel advisories against India.

A foreigner gets raped in town X, watch out for rapist, sex starved indians all over India. Also, lest we forget, the daily fix of poverty/women-killing/corruption that the western newspapers routinely indulge in.

The so called meek US media is now becoming an exception in this regard. The rest of them, they are addicted to Indian poverty like crackwhores. Every day the news editors roll up their Benjamins and <snort>Indian poverty from the newspapers.

Take any major foreign newpaper and list India related articles for the last X number of years, you'll know what I am talking about.

Indian media is getting westernized and what can I say, karma is a b!tch!

**cdude** · 25 Feb 10, 23:46

Originally Posted by Bigfella

DO you really want to play 'my sh1tty media is better than your sh1tty media'? Indian media is feral, Chinese media is cowed. I wouldn't trust either to tell me the sun was going to rise in the morning without independent verification.

Did I even compare Chinese media with Indian media? Just because China has a state-controlled media, a member of Chinese heritage cannot comment on Indian media?

**cdude** · 25 Feb 10, 23:46

Originally Posted by cirrrocco

Chinese media, thats any oxymoron :-p

Why?

**Tronic** · 26 Feb 10, 00:24

I'd love to visit Australia someday, all this boo haa about racism is just that; there are racists everywhere, more so in India than Australia I'd say. Indian media are just selling a story to rake up their ratings. They close their eyes to the fact that Indians are much more racist towards each other. Just ask a Bihari or a person from UP how he is treated in other states. Or people from south up north; or easterners in other states. Punjabis, specifically Sardars, are made out to be dumbasses in every joke across India. Thank god the people of Andamans are so isolated and few in numbers that no one knows they even exist; else, they would also not be spared. India is a racist country, and the racism is directed towards other fellow Indians. That does not make frontline news, but this does? Maybe they should stick to the cause of the suffering of Biharis in Maharashtra simply because they are of a different ethnic build; or have the people gotten too accustomed to that story already?

**pennsy** · 26 Feb 10, 08:28

Originally Posted by axeman

For what it's worth, it has reached the Indian media (though no big headlines, ofc).

Australians treat themselves to Indian cuisine to protest race attacks - India - The Times of India

After the success of Vindaloo Against Violence it will be interesting to see how the Indian media portray any future attacks against Indians in Australia.

I doubt much will change.

**Bigfella** · 26 Feb 10, 08:41

Originally Posted by Tronic

I'd love to visit Australia someday, all this boo haa about racism is just that; there are racists everywhere, more so in India than Australia I'd say. Indian media are just selling a story to rake up their ratings. They close their eyes to the fact that Indians are much more racist towards each other. Just ask a Bihari or a person from UP how he is treated in other states. Or people from south up north; or easterners in other states. Punjabis, specifically Sardars, are made out to be dumbasses in every joke across India. Thank god the people of Andamans are so isolated and few in numbers that no one knows they even exist; else, they would also not be spared. India is a racist country, and the racism is directed towards other fellow Indians. That does not make frontline news, but this does? Maybe they should stick to the cause of the suffering of Biharis in Maharashtra simply because they are of a different ethnic build; or have the people gotten too accustomed to that story already?

Very eloquent & honest Tronic. Thank you. Be sure to tell us if you ever do head this way, I'm sure there will be a welcome wagon out in a few destinations.

I'm afraid that when it comes to racism there are few with a clear understanding of their own societies who can start casting stones. I am proud to live in a society that has accomodated people from virtually every nation, ethnicity & religion in the world with stunningly little violence or disruption. I am ashamed when we fail to meet the standards I know we are capable of, but I also know that the scales tip dramatically in favour of tolerance & acceptance here. Indeed, one of the eye opening aspects of recent months has been how many Indians have publically declared that they have experienced little or no racism in decades living here. I was particularly touched to hear this about my own home town of Albury, which I have always judged very harshly on issues of race. Clearly time has changed things there too (and perhaps I was a little unfair in my youth).

The whole issue of Indian students in Australia has been a mess. In addition to the attacks there have been some questionable operators fleecing students & some 'students' with little interest in anything more than a visa. The issue has been handled poorly. I still believe that the vast majority of attacks have been about opportunity & a perception that young Indians are an 'easy target' rather than a specific racial motive. That does not make the crime any less painful or regrettable, but it does make a good deal of the comment around the issue unhelpful.

As I have said before, the people who will ultimately suffer most from the behaviour of the Indian media are other Indians. Australia will make up the income elsewhere, but some of those students will not get the opportunity to study, live & work in a country with the opportunities Australia has. The streets may not be paved with gold, but we certainly have something to offer those hard working or clever enough to take advantage of it. In my observation Indians make very good Australians - I would like to see more get the opportunity to make that choice. It would be a pity if those opportunities were lost as the result of innacurate & hysterical reporting.

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