rj1

I don't think that's true, if so it's something new or I've never heard of it. Two of my fellow workers are Indians here on a visa, 1 of which was able to work off campus in an internship capacity.

ned kelly

TWO men attempting to leave Australia have had their passports seized by detectives investigating the stabbing murder of an Indian-born seasonal work contractor in the Riverina town of Griffith.
They were stopped by police at the Sydney Airport departure lounge on Monday as they were about to board a flight to Nepal via Singapore. Both were questioned about their relationship to murdered 25-year-old Ranjodh Singh.
Indian student murder Griffith

there is already talk that the most recent man who was set on fire in victoria was doing this for insurance.

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xinhui

pChan

in the US, you can work off-compus if you have a sponsor

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Chunder

The Australian Government changes immigration policy from time to time - and this gets quite a large amount of coverage in the Media, although what from all accounts inside the Department is the complete detachment of the government from the people that must make the final decision, and the mediocre tools given to them to do so, whilst having 'intake', and pressure thereof to provide residency. The Department of Immigration has gone through so many name changes in the past 10 years most of the long time staff are resigned to the bureaucracy void between it & it's minister. From many perspectives inside the dept the best Immigration minister was Amanda Vanstone, she was one of i think 4 or 5 ministers to fill the portfolio over the last 13 years she knew how to run a department effectively.

The way Australia takes immigrants is based on a few factors. Providing refuge from turmoil. The people likely to be industrious (Working class, gainfully employed) are the ones for which immigration is hardest.

I dislike Bolt, but he is correct in much of the article on one he is wrong. When refugees come from overseas the Department tells them where they are to live. The fact that so many problems occur in the Eastern States shows that the policy has worked to it's limit - nobody is really sure how that is to happen. Many of the experienced personnel in the department are fantastic but it gets chopped and changed so often it seems to have no clear mission. In this respect, the left of politics shoulders a huge proportion of blame. I want to quantify this though, that some of the most inept appointments ever were made by the Howard Government, the level of Resentment for Howard there is huge too. It is respectable / honourable to give people refuge, but the cluster**** this has created in hurting many people are products of the policies. A Good rule of thumb would be, if you don't have good bi-lateral ties with the government nationality in question - then just WTF do you think you are doing letting that mentality into the country. Rudds policy is complete crock, on sheer influx alone - and the treatment is still shite.

Australia has good bilateral ties with India. The migrants that come from India really are some of the best that we get. Hard working, Very polite, Honest, Friendly, Speak the language etc. We don't have good Bi-lateral ties with most war torn countries.

On Friday night, at one of the Bars there was a congregation of some 150-200 Sudanese youths outside. It must have been pretty much 1/6th of the youth population of this city of that ethnicity. I KNOW bad moods and Dangerous situations. Whats more they were all wearing the same clothes indicating a clique. Cliques are very, VERY dangerous should the wrong ingredient be provided by the wrong person or even a perceived wrong occur. I.E in this case opposite skin colour seeing the large congregation and crossing the street could be fatal. People just do not realise this until they have had their head bashed in several times and their life altered forever, that this scenario is bad. The above is NOT a swipe at the Sudanese population, there is guilt by association naturally, BUT if you don't speak the language, come from a different class society, and have nothing in common with the host country then your options are limited you have a degree of inevitability in your fate. The Left does not recognise the HUGE problems this presents to society. It's got nothing to do with your skin color, but has a large degree to do with people of like creed having to face the uphill battle of being able to interact with society that is presented naturally that everyone has.

No matter how accommodating you are you cannot change this. Nor should one have to. It's a socially free country. I shouldn't have to go out of my way if I do not want to (although I frequently do because it's my nature). The Policies of the government have a large degree of trust in the empathy of Australians to help them integrate & fit in, because Australians are empathetic people. But this is not Objective based immigration intake. You don't let anyone in who is likely to endanger your own population for any reason whatsoever. We spend Hundreds of Millions of dollars each year post 9/11 on security in airports just incase someone manages to hijack a plane and kill a few hundred. We ruin the working potential of people with minor firearms offences for life, more than someone who is done for serious assault. Yet we let youths in who have no compunction when it comes to killing because the Department of Immigration has no real way of knowing whether they are a former child soldier or not. I have provided refuge for two guys running for their lives after a stabbing by aforementioned community at the potential cost of my own. This is the reality of my life mate. Seriously, if Immigration workers say it's stuffed, and we have such a disparity in the protection of our own population, then we deserve what we get and nobody, least of all the media is going to do too much about it because unlike the assertions, we are too damn good hearted to be able to stomach what is required.

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pChan

International students in US cannot work off-campus for part-time jobs during a semester. Internship happen during summer break & requires a fair degree of paperwork to ascertain that it serves the academic pursuit of the student. Students get to do internships in professional organization and are unlikely to get attacked - a situation quite different from the kind of response that a student working in a gas station (part-time) would elicit.

pChan

I once heard that an average German's tolerance to multiculturalism lasts untill the third beer. There are also numerous examples of nations where immigration is now increasingly seen as a menace. UK is a good example where the non-integration of immigrants into british society has given raise to numerous problems like terrorism etc. Consequently parties with radical agendas like the BNP are seeing their popularity raise as mainstream parties tip-toe around political correctness. This phenomenon is also seen in Austria. The french also have their ghettos to deal with (reminds me of a movie called "La Haine"). Not all nations are as successful like America when it comes to integration. And even in America the process is not seamless for e.g. the sudanese refugees in Minnesota.

I have no idea about the situation in Australia. But it should carefully consider the european experience before embarking on a "lets do multiculturalism" adventure.

And the loss of skilled immigrants also has an moral aspect to it. I have heard that there are more ethiopian doctors in Washington D.C area than ethiopia itself. When third-world nations train their nations doctors/engineers and lose them to the first-world it places an enormous strain on their system as the impoverished third-world nation is deprived of not just tax revenue but also services of the skilled. But if these skilled workers are encouraged to return by the host country, the resultant transfer of know-how, work ethics could benefit the first world nation. For e.g. the returning chinese migrants from Australia could potentially accelerate the political reforms in that country for they will inject the liberal western oriented mind-set into China. And a democratic liberal china is a lot more in Australian interest than an authoritarian china.

So IMV Australia should encourage more students from India,China etc to its shores and then also encourage them to return home after these students spend considerable time in Australia. Such a move will strike a balance between getting the benefits of immigration and preventing their society from being changed in ways that Australians don't want to see their society changed.

Aussiegunner

I don't see how telling Indian students what type of work that they can do when they come here is going to help. There aren't nearly enough on campus jobs for all of them and it would just mean that many couldn't afford to live here. Apart from that it would be a gross infringement of their civil liberties and they would be rightly offended.

Bigfella

You are over 200 years too late.

The process accellerated after WW2 & became official policy in the early 70s (when the flaws of 'assimilation' became clear). Our population has trebled since 1945 & over 3 million of our current population were born overseas. Perhaps half our current population was either born overseas or has descended from someone who arrived here after 1945.

The sky has not fallen in and we are a more prosperous & in some ways a more peaceful society than we were even in the 70s. The doomsayers simply recycle arguments that have been used in one form or another for 150 years or more. That they are occasionally correct is rarely much more than the 'stopped clock' effect.

The problem with the 'European experience' is that 'blood & soil' nationalism did not die with WW2, it just got milder. Telling migrants to assimilate into a society that persists in seeing them & their children as 'outsiders' is doomed to failure. I Australia, the US & Canada citizenship is encouraged & with it membership of the nation. This actually works remarkably well (if not perfectly). Indeed, rather than us pay attention to Europe, it should pay attention to us.

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Chunder

Australia has always been multicultural. There are infamous things from time to time (the White Australia Policy) But even then, that particular policy as BF has pointed out in an earlier thread was a product of the day.


Families from working backgrounds, have to jump through incredible hoops to get residency demonstrate considerable contribution to the community they live in because their is very real risk and value associated with the immigration here with a very clear knowledge in their minds of what they must undertake to prosper, and they are well liked. The financial stress on them is enormous. This indicates that it is not a multicultural problem at all, it is not even racial specific. It when we allow conflicting creeds into the country with little way to assimilate, integrate or fit in. There is considerable difference between the two. Sudanese Mother can learn how to clean a domestic house, Sudanese Mothers son speaks very poor English, hearded goats, and is shoved in lower class housing out in a working class or dole neighbourhood in a completely foreign environment, speaking a completely different language, with low social prospects that he is all too aware of. Yes they are good people, yes they hold great potential. But they inevitably become a product of the environment that we cannot guarantee, because we as a society cannot understand & bridge the void easily full stop. More to the point, we should not have to. This is likely to be an extremely stressful realisation for such people - and there are charities that help linking them up with sporting facilities, social clubs, churches etc...


You should be very careful on whom you let in - It may surprise many that many Russians are turned away, for instance because of suspicion on links to organised crime. To get a background check from the Russian Federation takes up to and over a year, even if your a Doctor in the Russian Navy.

You shouldn't be allowing great numbers in either because of the ethnic tension of other nationalities that still exists due to close links with their homeland. That does not mean in perpetuity, but the reality is, if Foreign Affairs says "Don't go there, we can't guarantee your safety" or our Govt simply cannot mentally engage another through entrenched mistrust or anarchy, Then just WTF are we doing trying to evaluate people on a form? Shifting the mentality to "tough, we have our own walks to worry about".

I do not know of many people at all though that are opposed to helping provide shelter to the innocent thats not the issue, the Issue is that the Department can only do so much vetting of individuals from war torn or ethnically intolerant societies. It would be nice to be able to "treat all people equally" but in the interests of those already here, the reality is that you cannot. Being kicked around like a political football at election time and avoided like a Leper does not bode the country well.

Unfortunately the media is into catch phrase Jingoism.

pChan

How has been the assimilation experience of migrants of different religions/race in Australia? Still there is a fundamental difference in that the population of Australia/America was formed by historic assimilation while its not the case with Europe.

rj1

That is completely untrue and to be frank I find your statement insulting. Here's the two reasons why:

1.) If you've ever been to an American gas station, especially in medium-sized cities or larger, a good-sized proportion of the cashiers in such stores tend to be foreign at least in relation to their population size in said cities.

2.) There's an insinuation present that if a foreign student got himself a job and was exposed to the wider American populace that he would instantly find himself beaten, which is untrue as well. Our nation has tons of immigrants, even today. Just at my work in my engineering group I have 1 Brazilian, 2 Indians, and 1 Briton, and I used to have 2 Vietnamese, 1 Ghanaian, 1 Mexican, and 1 Jamaican who have since gone to other jobs. None of them ever got threatened by the wider population or had any problems in the area that is 50/50 black to white and it's an area that would probably get tagged "redneck" by U.S. liberals, so it's not some big city like New York.

pChan

My response was actually to the situation in Australia. I also quoted the following text from another post in this thread. Its pertinent to the extent to which the following situation is true. Its more intended as a solution rather than as a commentary.

As for America I have noticed that there is a small proportion of folks who are xenophobic and that is not necessarily defined by class. I have noticed that among students in labs as well as construction workers in strip malls.

Hindu_Infidel

Aussie authorities had a press conference that answered the questions of indian journalists and denied that it was racist. Next day, an indian newspaper posted a cartoon to describe the press conference in there own way.


Indians have a trust issue with the australians. Indians know there english too well. This is how the indians are viewing the aussie's bubba clarifications.
Australia denies racism, accuses Kangaroos of attacking Indians | Faking News

Bigfella

Really?

Hindu_Infidel

Was that covered in nexus?