Thread: Worse. Than. Carter.

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

And that did a wonderful job of stopping the Iranian nuclear and missile program. So much so that the Saudis would turn a blind eye for the Israelis to do the dirty work for them. It seems to be that the Saudis are better at this game than the Israelis.

Osirak in 1981 comes to mind.

Here's an article I wrote in July of this year. It's slightly relevant, but please give me some feedback, all comments are welcome, as always.

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According to Reuters, Vice President Joe Biden has declared that "Israel has a sovereign right to decide what is in its best interest in dealing with Iran's nuclear ambitions whether the United States agrees or not". In an interview with ABC, Biden said "We cannot dictate to another sovereign nation what they can and cannot do when they make a determination, if they make a determination, that they're existentially threatened," Aside from the typical standard political non committal drivel, I wonder, when exactly did Israel start seeking US approval regarding military matters?

The first time Israel asked the US for permission to attack was in 1973, and we were denied. "Let the Arabs fire the first shot" was the prevalent philosophy, because then world opinion will be in Israeli favor. This by the way, is the exact opposite of the Six Day War in 1967. The Israelis fired the first shot, and the world was all for some Israeli ass kicking. Instead, what happened? Over 2,600 Israeli soldiers died in what was then the longest war since the War of Independence in 1948. Per capita, Israel had more casualties than the US did in a whole decade in Vietnam. In a move that almost led to a global nuclear war with the former USSR, the US finally stepped in with a military airlift which allowed the IDF to continue fighting and eventually defeat the Egyptians and Syrians.

The next time the United States was in the picture was 28 years later in 1991, when Saddam Hussein started launching unguided Scud missiles on Israeli cities. The United states wasn't so much consulted as forced the IAF to recall its planes already on the air on the way to attack Iraqi targets, for the greater good of the multi-national coalition founded against Saddam, which included Egypt, Morocco, Syria, Saudi Arabia and many other Arab nations who would have withdrawn were it to be known they were fighting alongside Israel. What did Israel get in return? Patriot anti-air missiles which were extremely ineffective in stopping any of the Scuds, and priority on placing targets on some of the bombing lists.

The main predecessor of the above statement by Mr. Biden is the 1981 attack on Osirak, the Iraqi nuclear reactor. On June 7, 1981, 14 Israeli planes launched an attack on the reactor, disabling the reactor. In typical Israeli fashion, the attack was launched on a Sunday to minimize casualties. Only 10 Iraqi soldiers (valid targets) and one French civilian were killed. What was the end result? Israel was squarely condemned by the UN Security Council, of which the US is a permanent member. UN Resolution 487 was passed, which "strongly condemns the military attack by Israel in clear violation of the Charter of the United Nations and the norms of international conduct."

So apparently, it's a good thing to ask the United States' permission, because then Israeli's can die in larger numbers. However, if Israel doesn't ask permission, minimizes enemy casualties (a courtesy that not many militaries offer), and does the world a favor, then they get slammed by anyone and everybody on the international stage. "Does the world a favor?" you might ask. It turns out that after the Gulf War several US politicians wrote Israeli Prime Minister Begin (the PM during the Osirak Attack) thanking him for ordering the attack.

How dangerous was Osirak, that Begin got thank you letters? Consider that when the Coalition forces attacked the reactor in 1991, over 100 airplanes of 4 different types attacked it almost 10 times before the Defense Intelligence Agency decided it was "severely degraded"

And now we're back in 2009. Now Iran has a nuclear reactor and is threatening Israel. Déjà vu all over again. This is the same Iran that, coincidentally, ALSO attacked the Osirak reactor, nearly a year before the Israelis did. So now we have permission from the US to not ask permission before we decide to do anything. So once again, thank you, Mr. Biden, for clearing that up for us. I just hope that if and when Israel does do something about the Iranian reactor because the US is too scared to do something aside from talk, you remember your words. Because we will.

bigross,

that's what happens when israel takes US money. either go sovereign and not accept aid, or accept aid with the strings attached.